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The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Thu May 29, 2014 4:43 pm

well guys NS is at it again this time with recycled arguments, here they are.

NS wrote:NH never gives Sai any credit, he basically told Sakura how Naruto felt about her and yet NH keeps going on about Sai being in the wrong, that's not being fair on Sai.

this one is self explanatory, first of all it wasn't Sai's call to make, the biggest problem there is that Naruto has never said to Sai that he was in love with Sakura and yet there is Sai jumping to conclusion, second Sai only gets what he thinks he knows from a book, he lacks the experience to make the judgement to act accordingly, it was really none of his business anyway, sure they are in the same team, but when it comes to personal things like that, it is best to not get involved.

NS wrote:if Naruto doesn't end up with Sakura or doesn't pursue her, that makes him a quitter.

another easy one to deal with, since when did Naruto say he was going to pursue Sakura? Since when did he say he was going to end up with her, it doesn't make him a quitter if he doesn't pursue Sakura.

then there is this one, one which I laughed at.

NS wrote:Naruto is the main character and all main characters get what they want, he at least deserves to be with Sakura.

Yeah I was like wow too, returning to the last response, yes a main character gets what they want, but as I pointed out Naruto never said he wanted to be with Sakura. his wants are to be:
1. to become Hokage: almost within reach.
2. to surpass the previous Hokage: achieved.
3. to save Sasuke: within reach (to which it says Naruto failed) well no he hasn't there are other ways Naruto can save Sasuke without having to go out in the world and pursue him and fight him, like showing him that he isn't alone and everyone will be there for him.
4. to be acknowledged by his peers/villagers: achieved.
5. to save the ninja world: almost achieved.

and to have the deserve argument, well come on NS, there are better arguments than that.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Thu May 29, 2014 5:50 pm

Mustang wrote:well guys NS is at it again this time with recycled arguments, here they are.
NS wrote:NH never gives Sai any credit, he basically told Sakura how Naruto felt about her and yet NH keeps going on about Sai being in the wrong, that's not being fair on Sai.

NS never gives Sai any credit. He straight out told Naruto how Sakura felt about Sasuke (that she loves him) and yet NS keeps going on about how Sakura don't love Sasuke anymore. That's not fair to Sai-or Sakura.

NS wrote:if Naruto doesn't end up with Sakura or doesn't pursue her, that makes him a quitter.

So Naruto not quitting on bringing Sasuke back, not quitting in a fight, not quitting on his dream to become Hokage doesn't mean crap if he quits chasing after a girl who has made it clear she is not interested in him romantically and loves someone he considers his best friend (and he is fully aware of this)? Wow NS, for a manga where romance apparently doesn't take precedence, it sure seems like Naruto's entire "never give up" philosophy revolves around him getting into Sakura's spandex.

Naruto should cease and desist under the knowledge that she is not interested and is in love with his best friend. What kind of person would Naruto be if he insisted on trying to pursue her despite this knowledge? Look at Jiraiya, he never moved on and even after everything, she still dreams of Dan. That will be Naruto in a nutshell.

I would say the same thing if Hinata knew for a fact that Naruto loved Sakura and was not interested, and yet continued to try and pursue him. It's not romantic and it's not admirable. It's creepy and incredibly disrespectful to Sakura's feelings and decision. But expecting NS to give a crap about Sakura's feelings is too much. She'll relent and be with Naruto by the end, he just has to push her a little harder. -.-


NS wrote:Naruto is the main character and all main characters get what they want, he at least deserves to be with Sakura.

Ah, the "deserving" and "main gets what he wants" arguments again. First of all, not all main characters get what they want. About the deserving argument: After all Sakura went through, I could say she "deserves" to get Sasuke and for him to love her back. After everything Hinata did for Naruto, I'd say she "deserves" to get Naruto and for him to love her back.

This argument can work for all three pairings, but love isn't about deserving someone and NH/SS don't need to use such shit defenses because these ships sail without petty arguments like this. NH/SS will happen because it's what both parties actually want. I wouldn't support a ship for canon if I didn't think there was potential for it. There is nothing that tells me Naruto is in love with Sakura and simply cannot move on and a throwaway joke isn't going to cut it.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Thu May 29, 2014 6:56 pm

I think NS doesn't look at the arguments it presents, some of those arguments really hurt it, like MainXMain.

this one in the series is easily countered, SasuSaku, is basically fulfilling the MainXMain argument, for Main character getting what main character wants, does it forget that Sakura is a main character as well? going by that logic Sakura should get Sasuke because that is what she wants, if Sakura gets what she wants then that is also fulfilling the argument about main character gets what they want. it is just not what it wants lol.

here is an argument I witnessed between NS and NH, somewhere, I forgot where it was.

NS: if Sakura gets with Sasuke it means her character is shallow and only went with Sasuke because he was cool or handsome, not going with the guy that had been there all this time.

NH: how does it make Sakura look shallow, if she went with Sasuke? she is loyal to her own feelings, she isn't in love with Sasuke because he is cool or handsome, she loves Sasuke because he isn't perfect and the fact that she wants to understand him more. Naruto being there all the time is because he is a friend and teammate of Sakura, of course those two are going to hang out. here is something, if Sakura suddenly changes her feelings from Sasuke to Naruto, that in turn would make her shallow, because she has never truly developed these feelings for Naruto and that she is doing that out of convenience, and that is not something that Sakura would ever consider doing, she is better than that. in fact most of the time they interact it is usually about how they can save Sasuke, or whether it will be the same when they bring him back.

NS: but Sakura is developing feelings for Naruto right?

NH: No, she isn't, she wishes for Sasuke to come back, her and Naruto are good friends, the simple fact is Sakura is not developing feelings for Naruto, there has been plenty of chances for that to happen, and it never occurred, as pointed out, but it has been confirmed numerous times that Sakura cannot let go of her feelings for Sasuke, even Kakashi said that Sakura cannot throw her feelings away, this basically means that Sakura's feelings have matured from a fangirlish crush to true love. that isn't shallow of Sakura.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Thu May 29, 2014 7:50 pm

Exactly.

It's funny how NS tries to act like it's not canonly the only pairing of the Big 3 that would be regarded as remotely shallow if it happened.

"Have you flipped? I just switched from Sasuke to you! They say a woman's heart is as fickle as the autumn skies don't they?"

fickle: changing frequently, especially as regards one's loyalties, interests, or affection.

In other words, Sakura justified her loving Naruto as her being flighty. This is not who Sakura is as a person at all. She knows who she loves and it's not Naruto.

Furthermore, this argument is just plain wrong. How can NS say she only sees his looks when Sakura hasn't commented on his looks or "coolness" since the beginning of the series? If NS thinks Sasuke would get with a girl who only cares about his looks and "cool factor" it obviously doesn't know Sasuke either. He's not going to be with anybody who doesn't care to see him past shallowness, he made that clear by brushing off any advances from girls who were like that, including when Sakura did it.

The fact that NS can honestly look back at everything Sakura went through with Sasuke from Part I to now and say this, proves it doesn't understand her character. Sakura did not personally witness all the pain, anger, cowardice, fear and weakness from Sasuke without coming out of it with an entirely different viewpoint on that boy. She no longer puts him on a pedestal, and the biggest giveaway for that if nothing else, is the fact that she didn't heed Naruto's reassurance the night Sasuke left.

She, Kakashi and Naruto all were aware of Sasuke's possibility of leaving yet at the end of the day, it was only Sakura, who stood there at the gate. If she was still the same shallow fangirl from the beginning, she would have gone to bed that night believing Naruto's words about how "Sasuke would never do something like leaving the village for Orochimaru." Yet the girl of 181 waited at Konoha's gate to try and stop the boy she loved. So no NS, there is no way in hell she remained a shallow fangirl only after his looks and it shows in every interaction they have.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Thu May 29, 2014 9:20 pm

Sakura is better than what NS sees her as.

I defend Sakura against NS and NH to no end, because as I see it, NS makes it look like Sakura is some sort of trophy for Naruto at the end of the series, now that really pisses me off. I mean it doesn't even consider Sakura's feelings too, it sees her as a girl who has no choice but to love Naruto. to which I reply by saying Sakura is not someone's prize at the end of the day. and boy doesn't that get on the nerves of NS when I say that.

NS asked one time, why I defend Sakura if I don't support NS.

All I said was, I at least appreciate her character and see her as she is, not what is being presented by NS and NH. I support NaruHina because there is potential to go forward, Naruto and Sakura's relationship is a lasting friendship, that has never gone beyond that limit.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Thu May 29, 2014 9:32 pm

NS asked one time, why I defend Sakura if I don't support NS.

I hate that. Like one cannot possibly defend or like Sakura if NS is not the pairing of choice. What is funny about this is, NS doesn't even support the character that Sakura is. NS doesn't defend Sakura's character and how she feels. NS defends what NaruSaku thinks she should be like, or who NaruSaku thinks she should love.

If NS doesn't like who Sakura loves or how she acts, it debases her character by saying she is "confused", or she "is still a fangirl after looks" or "doesn't know what true love is." These arguments are not Pro-Sakura. They are anti-Sakura/Pro-Naruto-getting-the-girl-NS-thinks-he-wants.

And if Sakura still does not relent, NS will cheer at Sasuke being an ass to her (seriously, NS is actually happy about this. Pro-Sakura indeed), and wish for Sasuke to be evil, which of course not only makes Naruto fail in bringing him back which is actually a stated goal of his (nice one NS), but it prevents Sakura from being with him ever.  

Because NaruSaku thinks it knows what is best for Sakura and that she doesn't know what's best for herself until a million other third parties tell her so, it believes that supporting NH/SS means not being a Sakura fan, or wanting Naruto to achieve his goals. Which is funny since NS will use arguments that even prove it will not mind stomping on Naruto's goals either for its pairing to be endgame.

NS is utter bullshit.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Thu May 29, 2014 10:54 pm

it was one of the reasons why I stopped arguing with NS, I needed to be the bigger man and go nope, I will not repeat myself, because when I repeat myself I really lose my cool and snap (most of the times I was repeating myself on more than one occasion, most times about 5 or 6 times). but I did leave a parting remark, it doesn't care about Sakura's feelings and doesn't trust Sakura enough to make her own choice, let alone Naruto's feelings and choices, I then logged off the area I was once at and never looked back since, that was about 2 weeks ago. last I checked I got banned for that remark, lol.       

away from that topic, because it might go too far.

I personally trust Sakura enough to make her own choices, she is a woman after all that has feelings and shouldn't be made to look silly or shallow, or making Naruto a lovesick idiot that should only go with Sakura, I personally dislike the fact that NS seems to be making the choices for the characters.

Sakura is an independent young woman, who should make her own choice. this is something NS just doesn't like.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Fri May 30, 2014 12:42 am

LOL NS doesn't like the truth. And you probably had to repeat yourself so many times because NS doesn't listen. It selective reads and/or skims, never really taking in what is being said. That's what I've noticed at least.

That's the thing though. NS doesn't trust Sakura to make what it believes is a good decision. Because the only decision that is right, is if she gets with Naruto.

That's why it already has a set idea of her character if she doesn't get with him (a shallow, immature fangirl who only got with Sasuke for his cool factor and looks). And you saw what NS will think of Naruto if he gets with anyone other than Sakura (a quitter). NS doesn't trust Sakura to make the right decision, so it is hoping Sasuke just stays evil and douchey so that she will finally "see the light" and love Naruto instead. Nevermind that she had plenty of time to move on, named all of Naruto's good points, and all of Sasuke's bad, and yet still doesn't love him.

This is evident in 469. NS tries to nitpick which parts of the failfession were true. The thing is, Sakura was telling the truth about feeling Naruto is such a great guy. But NS itself says that the failfession wasn't all a lie because "she was telling the truth about how she feels about Naruto, but she was lying about not caring for Sasuke at that point." Exactly NS. But what NS doesn't seem to get is that despite her telling the truth, she still doesn't love Naruto. 540 made it clear that (whether she is sad in that panel or not) Sasuke is the only one in her romantic thoughts, period.

NS even now, keeps trying to force Sakura to see the light and realize everything Naruto has done for her and how great he is, but it ignores the fact that the failfession already covered this. Sakura doesn't need to realize this because she already has. She already knows that Naruto is this great guy whose been there for her and is the hero and whatnot. She said it all in 469, go back and re-read it NS because she has perfect clarity on the kind of guy Naruto is and she loves him dearly...it's just not romantic.

Let's look at her failfession again and see everything that has been covered.

Spoiler:
NS argument #1 and #2: Sakura should move on, Sasuke is a criminal! If she doesn't, she still hasn't matured mentally (ie: still has a kid mentality).

Sakura: "I just suddenly realized...there's no sense in continuing loving a fugitive and a criminal. I can't stay a kid forever, I want to face reality."

Spoiler:
NS argument #3-#6: Sasuke is gone and Naruto is right with her, he's always been there for her! She should fall for him and leave Sasuke alone! Sakura will realize this and who Naruto is! She'll see Sasuke is just a criminal who is no good for her!"

Sakura: "Sasuke-kun just keeps getting further away from me. But Naruto, you've always stayed by my side. You've encouraged me. I...finally realized who you really are, Naruto. The Hero who protected the leaf village...beloved by everyone in the village...I'm just one of them. That mischevious little dummy who I knew...little by little is becoming this great and important man. And I've been watching right from next to him. But all Sasuke's done is commit crimes and break my heart. More and more he's becoming a different person, so distant. But Naruto-you're right here, where I can touch you like this....you make me feel safe. Right now, from the bottom of my heart, I-"
Every single one. Naruto is the hero, Naruto is right there, Naruto has been there for her, Naruto is more than what he was and she's seen it all, she's been there watching it. She's realized who he is. Sasuke is a criminal, Sasuke keeps becoming more distant, Sasuke is committing crimes and breaking her heart.

Yet after all of that, Naruto not only degrades NaruSaku's thought process by still chalking it up to "an unfunny joke" but Sakura still cannot bring herself to love him romantically. And if she meant what she'd said, she wouldn't have changed up her words to say "well, a girl is fickle like the autumn skies right?"
Spoiler:


If she really had thought knowing all of this about Naruto was enough to change her perspective on him romantically, she wouldn't have used such a derogatory saying to describe everything she'd said to him. So unless NS is trying to say that it thinks Sakura is such a moron that she acknowledged everything good about Naruto and how it had benefited her, yet is still confused and thinks true love is all about looks, which sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if that is indeed the case, there's really nothing left to say here.

Again, I see dead pairing.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Irielo on Fri May 30, 2014 2:12 am

Even this so called "love" or crush Naruto had on Sakura looked more like a funny joke the time it was occurring in the story... Anyway, NS should realize that Naruto and Sakura are friends. It is normal for friends and teammates to help each other. I am not suggesting that friendship can't evolve into romantic love but in NS case, it did not happen.

I think Naruto is very happy to have found a girl like Hinata who loves him the way he is and who already admired him before he could achieve the great things he did.

As far as Sakura is concerned, it's not because Naruto has become a hero that she must fall for him. Her goal is to take Sasuke out of the darkness where he is. Like Hinata who saw Naruto's potential, Sakura knows that there is something positive somewhere in Sasuke. This is the reason why she never stopped believing in him. If she had stopped to love Sasuke because he came a criminal to fall for Naruto, the hero, that would have been a typical example of someone who actually is shallow and confused about her feelings. But Sakura is very consistent with her feelings. The only thing she needs is to be reassured.




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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Fri May 30, 2014 3:16 am

Sakura is a great character, loyal to her feelings, not shallow and most certainly free to make her choice, she has on more than one occasion proven that she is independent on the choices she makes and requires no influence from other characters to make her choices, you know it took me a while to see that point, but after re-reading the manga, I was like, *ah now I see*

what I mean by that is I started to see the characters in a different light, now to be honest, I was actually a Sakura basher, yeah I was, glad I wasn't here around that time lol, you guys would have seen me bashing Sakura to no end, lol. but that stance quickly changed, why because I saw a few values in Sakura that I really like in any person,
1. loyalty, that to her feelings and to the person she loves, to her friends and the village.
2. true to herself, she never changed her mind about who she loves, and it isn't likely that will change and lastly, she doesn't pretend to be something that she isn't.
3. strong, independent and most of all mature, she doesn't need people to make her choices for her, she is perfectly capable of making them herself. she is mature enough to decide what she wants.

those 3 values in her character is what NS tends to overlook at when it comes to Sakura, to make Sakura look shallow and incapable of being loyal and true to herself, strong, independent and mature, it really burns me up when it makes Sakura look like none of those. I have defended Sakura against NS and I can tell you this, it still doesn't get why I do it.

and damn I cannot say what I think, because it is against the rules, lol. 

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by racefan1992 on Fri May 30, 2014 4:40 am

NS wrote:if Naruto doesn't end up with Sakura or doesn't pursue her, that makes him a quitter. wrote:

How does that make him a quitter? How in the blue hell does that work?

Naruto has fought for everything in his life (some of his power ups maybe asspulls but whatever). He has never QUIT on anything he has set his sites on. Sakura was NEVER one of his goals, he NEVER said she was. I find it vastly disrespectful that NS is putting words in Narutos mouth even tho he never said them himself.

Oh and when Naruto was about too quit on a few occasions, guess who was there NS..... A shy, quiet but caring, determined and unselfish Hyuuga girl on loves him for who he is and didn't want too see him fail. And she gave him the strength and drive so he COULD NOT fail.

Unlike Sakura, who at the time of the chunin exams written part was having the time of her life watching Naruto struggle with the test until when she realized that if he fails, they all go down.

                
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Irielo on Fri May 30, 2014 4:54 am

racefan1992 wrote:

How does that make him a quitter? How in the blue hell does that work?

Naruto has fought for everything in his life (some of his power ups maybe asspulls but whatever). He has never QUIT on anything he has set his sites on. Sakura was NEVER one of his goals, he NEVER said she was. I find it vastly disrespectful that NS is putting words in Narutos mouth even tho he never said them himself.

Oh and when Naruto was about too quit on a few occasions, guess who was there NS..... A shy, quiet but caring, determined and unselfish Hyuuga girl on loves him for who he is and didn't want too see him fail. And she gave him the strength and drive so he COULD NOT fail.

Unlike Sakura, who at the time of the chunin exams written part was having the time of her life watching Naruto struggle with the test until when she realized that if he fails, they all go down.

                

Oh! That is probably the result of some fillers, movies or fan fictions... The only goal Naruto has/had towards Sakura is/was to bring Sasuke back. And why? Because he likes Sasuke as a brother and Sakura loves Sasuke. He knows how Sakura would be happy to have Sasuke by her side and I'm sure Naruto also knows that Sakura would bring happiness in Sasuke's life.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Fri May 30, 2014 1:13 pm

Well, yes, in fillers (Shippuden ones), Naruto has claimed that he loves Sakura and that he'll basically love her forever. Obviously, none of that has happened in the manga in part 1 nor part 2.

That's why if someone does watch the anime and considers everything that happens in it to be part of the story that there will be vastly different impressions on character motivations/feelings.

I'm actually glad that I was such a Sailor Moon fan (via the anime first) that I felt the need to get the manga version. Even though I've seen/watched other mangas that became animes, that was the first one where I really was so into the story that the "changes" meant a lot to me when I realized they existed so much. In so many cases there's such a huge difference in story presentation in anime adaptations versus manga stories. Unless something is short (Puella Magi Madoka anime & manga of the original series are mostly the same--there are differences but usually not really "big" ones), there are always massive liberties taken so that even if the end result is mainly the same the fact that the journey to it is different can affect opinions on things.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sat May 31, 2014 3:02 am

there are some good fillers out there, like my personal favourite is the one with Kakashi's mask, but they aren't meant to be taken to heart, they are just there to break things up a little bit and give some light hearted moments in a series that isn't really all that light hearted.

I remember an argument I had with NS about 2 years ago I think, it said "Sakura cannot fight the person she used to love, even though it is filler it is still hope for NaruSaku,"

all I said was fillers don't count for any pairing be it NaruHina, NaruSaku, SasuSaku or SasuNaru, so therefore it doesn't give NaruSaku hope, fillers are just that, it adds nothing to the story and the characters are usually out of character, plus Sakura being there sort of didn't make sense since she would need to continue healing other ninja.

if NS relies on fillers than it just makes the arguments it comes up with less valid, I actually got away from that area, because I can say it was really nasty, NS and NH were always at one another's throats it didn't matter what was said, well that was before Strawberry gave the link to this awesome site.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by racefan1992 on Sat May 31, 2014 4:50 am

I'm going too be blunt here, i'd concider this "pairing war" over (meaning NS can't use evidence and what stupid stuff NS comes up with) that when IT is broken and Naruto rescues everyone however when he rescues Hinata "if" he said something along the lines of "i heard you call out too me, i'm sorry i couldn't get too you. But i'm here now, your safe."

Then it is over pretty much. But this is just a guess on my part but a hopeful guess because i want too hear the metric ton of excuses NS would come with.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Irielo on Sat May 31, 2014 5:08 am

^I don't even understand the reason of this war because:

1) Hinata and Sakura are no rivals when it comes to Naruto

2) Sakura is in love with Sasuke

3) Even though Naruto (in the worst cases) could ignore Hinata, that would not mean him ending up automatically with Sakura

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sat May 31, 2014 10:45 am

Lol there is no war. It's literally just this:

NS: *whine, insult, delusion, denial*
NH/SS: Gettin real tired of yo shit NarSak.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by lily567 on Sat May 31, 2014 11:10 am

http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165325:
guys i want you to read this entire thread and tell me what you guys think.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Irielo on Sat May 31, 2014 12:04 pm

lily567 wrote:
http:
guys i want you to read this entire thread and tell me what you guys think.

NS in the link you've posted is stating the same NS arguments we use to debunk here. So, nothing really new: Sai and Yamato, Sakura healing Naruto, her seeing him as a fine young man after the time-skip, "Sasuke does not love her"...

Well, NS remains NS... If it still wants to see things that way, I don't think something can be done about it even though the manga would prove it wrong 100 times.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sat May 31, 2014 12:17 pm

lily567 wrote:
http:
guys i want you to read this entire thread and tell me what you guys think.

The OP I didn't like that OP felt that Naruto shouldn't "give up on getting Sakura to like him back." It doesn't matter what all Naruto has done for her (which, what has he really done aside from be a general good friend?) Naruto can't "get her to love him" that's not how it works. Sakura has to be attracted to him, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally. She isn't. She thinks he's handsome? Okay, Naruto is a total cutie I thought the exact same thing when I first saw him in shippuden. Just because she isn't blind to good looks, doesn't mean she has romantic feelings for him now.

As for the thread, so much Sakura bashing...   

I do agree with those who say Hinata should be with Naruto though. x3 The OP keeps talking about how Hinata didn't do anything for Naruto, (though the thread is pretty old and there has been more interaction since then, I mean the thread hasn't even covered the handhold yet) but Sakura hasn't really done anything when you really think about it. Just like Naruto, she's been a general good friend, but nothing really beyond that.

Hinata is different. She's not his teammate. Naruto did not have to swear on her blood to win the match she couldn't. She was of no concern to him, yet he did it. And on top of it, he connected with her on what she was feeling and understood her Immediately after learning about her family. Hinata didn't have to give Naruto proud failure speech or offer to let him cheat off her test, they hardly knew each other, but she did it because she understood his struggles and desired to rise above her own because of him.

Naruto considered Hinata a good friend by Part II, but only Hinata jumped in to save him amongst all his friends, and that's because she loves him. Everything NH has done for one another wasn't a result of because they have friendship or being teammates like NaruSaku. Naruto of course saves Sakura and such because she is his teammate and friend, but there is no romantic undertones to it. They spend time together because they are teammates and friends.

Sakura tried to feed him that time because he had a broken arm and was shown to not be able to feed himself. Reminding of the time Sasuke fed Naruto because he couldn't move and they needed him to continue getting the bells. It's clearly a gesture a friend and teammate would do, hence Kishi cockblocking the scene with Sai and Kakashi and adding on Sai mentioning it was what friends do. Yet NS keeps trying to add romantic implications to it, when it's clear Sakura wasn't interested in him romantically then or now.

Then there's the "you can love more than one person!" argument NS uses. But god forbid NH state that this argument can easily work for its pairing as well. If Sakura can love both Naruto and Sasuke at the same time despite zero evidence that Sakura has any romantic feelings for Naruto, then it's just as possible that Naruto could have romantic feelings for both girls too. But NS will deny it and say there is no evidence, while denying there is no evidence for Sakura -> Naruto either. (Though, at this point 558-559, 615, 633, and 675 say hello to the no Naruto -> Hinata evidence argument). There is still no evidence of Saku -> Naru though.

Funniest double standard:

NS: Sasuke doesn't love Sakura so she'll never get his love, she should get with Naruto who actually loves her!

NS ignores that this argument holds far more true for NaruSaku. Nobody knows what Sasuke is really thinking, one can only guess. Sakura however, has made it abundantly clear that she is not romantically interested in Naruto so...

NH: Sakura doesn't love Naruto so he'll never get her love, he should get with Hinata who actually loves him!


Last edited by Bubbles on Sat May 31, 2014 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Batokusanagi on Sat May 31, 2014 12:18 pm

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:Actually, that particular databook (it was released in 2008; for a point of reference, Hinata did not confess until 2009) on the relationship chart still has "Sakura likes Sasuke" but removed "Naruto likes Sakura" that existed the databook released in 2005. I have to admit that was good times.

Sure, the 2008 databook was finally officially translated into English by Viz in 2013 (and none of the other databooks have been translated into English--the first one is from 2002), which breathed new life into that same single line in Sakura's profile. That particular line was answered in 2009 (and has been re-answered several times over since then: Sakura thinks of Naruto as a dear friend only). As usual, questionable things stated in the databooks have tended to be eventually answered by the manga though some things are still outstanding. For those who are just reading the databook from 2008 thinking it's completely relevant to now (despite the fact that even Viz was nice enough to note that the databook only covers up to chapter 402 which makes it a time warp back to 2007/2008), they'll just have to accept the fact that line has been re-answered with recent chapters pointing out that Sakura still considers Naruto only a dear friend and she happens to love Sasuke romantically.
When NS brings up DB's I just mention dat line in Hinata's profile in DB 1 "Timidity and hesitation, unease and nervousness... An ebbing and flowing love story".

meow69 wrote:
Bubbles wrote:
Irielo wrote:^My point is even though the story would give zillions and zillions reasons to prove NaruHina, there would be still zillions and zillions reason to deny it and to make the pairing look bad... What can we do about it? Wasting our time and energy to show that NH is more than credible? Discussing to realize that it's leading to nowhere?

Or just wait for the inevitable implosion of NS when it realizes its ship sunk a long time ago.  
 

That's what I'm doing. I might mock the ship and talk about how its arguments fail, but I don't waste time debating with NS anymore. It is like talking to a wall.

Waiting for NS to implode just like HarryxHermione did. Perfect pairing to prove mainxmain doesn't always happen. I find most times Mainxmain rarely happens unless it is pretty obvious from the beginning of the series.
It's even better. In HP, both a mainxmain (RonxHermione) and a mainxsecondary character (HarryxGinny) happen.
Strawberry wrote:Hey guys! ^.^ As most of you might know, I've been staying away from pairing debates and the likes. Just focusing on my thing and making edits about NaruHina and the pairings I like while completely ignoring NarSak.

But I guess even shipping my ship in peace still rustles NarSak's jimmies and it resorts to attacking my edits with petty arguments. So that ticks me off and I am going to rant for a little. Or a while. Whichever I feel like.

Apparently, if I make an edit about the latest NaruHina moment in which Hinata thinks of Naruto's name and he reacts in the panel immediately after that, then that totally means I am saying Naruto only cares about Hinata alone and doesn't give a crap about the whole alliance and I am pathetic. Heh. I think that just goes to show how the latest moment really hit home, and as always, NarSak is trying hard to downplay it by using generalization. Poor thing.

I NEVER said Naruto only cares about Hinata alone.
I NEVER said Naruto didn't give a crap about the whole alliance.

Naruto is one of the most caring characters in the whole series. He's done so many things exhausting himself to go out of his way to protect even nameless fodders. Of course I have that clear and I certainly do not need NarSak to remind me.

But the connection between Naruto and Hinata was clearly present this chapter, and no amount of excuses will deny that fact. Even if Naruto was reacting to everyone, it was Hinata the medium used as a symbolism to make that connection. It was Hinata the last one to appear by herself thinking of his name before we see Naruto's reaction immediately after. Kishimoto could've chosen any other character; he could've made anyone say Naruto's name and have him appear next as if he was hearing their calling, but he didn't choose anyone else. And I'd like to believe there is a reason for that.

If NarSak needs to stoop so low as to bash someone's edit with pitiful excuses, it only shows how threatened it feels by this moment. And honestly, it should be.

While I'm at it, I feel a little bit troll-ish so I'm going to leave this here. How NarSak saw chapter 677 / How it wishes it had happened:

Spoiler:
lol dat edit. After 678, there's no doubt who Naruto was reacting to. NS talks about "seeing underneath the underneath", but it seems unable to see the most obvious things.
Bubbles wrote:LOL NS doesn't like the truth. And you probably had to repeat yourself so many times because NS doesn't listen. It selective reads and/or skims, never really taking in what is being said. That's what I've noticed at least.

That's the thing though. NS doesn't trust Sakura to make what it believes is a good decision. Because the only decision that is right, is if she gets with Naruto.

That's why it already has a set idea of her character if she doesn't get with him (a shallow, immature fangirl who only got with Sasuke for his cool factor and looks). And you saw what NS will think of Naruto if he gets with anyone other than Sakura (a quitter). NS doesn't trust Sakura to make the right decision, so it is hoping Sasuke just stays evil and douchey so that she will finally "see the light" and love Naruto instead. Nevermind that she had plenty of time to move on, named all of Naruto's good points, and all of Sasuke's bad, and yet still doesn't love him.

This is evident in 469. NS tries to nitpick which parts of the failfession were true. The thing is, Sakura was telling the truth about feeling Naruto is such a great guy. But NS itself says that the failfession wasn't all a lie because "she was telling the truth about how she feels about Naruto, but she was lying about not caring for Sasuke at that point." Exactly NS. But what NS doesn't seem to get is that despite her telling the truth, she still doesn't love Naruto. 540 made it clear that (whether she is sad in that panel or not) Sasuke is the only one in her romantic thoughts, period.

NS even now, keeps trying to force Sakura to see the light and realize everything Naruto has done for her and how great he is, but it ignores the fact that the failfession already covered this. Sakura doesn't need to realize this because she already has. She already knows that Naruto is this great guy whose been there for her and is the hero and whatnot. She said it all in 469, go back and re-read it NS because she has perfect clarity on the kind of guy Naruto is and she loves him dearly...it's just not romantic.

Let's look at her failfession again and see everything that has been covered.

Spoiler:
NS argument #1 and #2: Sakura should move on, Sasuke is a criminal! If she doesn't, she still hasn't matured mentally (ie: still has a kid mentality).

Sakura: "I just suddenly realized...there's no sense in continuing loving a fugitive and a criminal. I can't stay a kid forever, I want to face reality."

Spoiler:
NS argument #3-#6: Sasuke is gone and Naruto is right with her, he's always been there for her! She should fall for him and leave Sasuke alone! Sakura will realize this and who Naruto is! She'll see Sasuke is just a criminal who is no good for her!"

Sakura: "Sasuke-kun just keeps getting further away from me. But Naruto, you've always stayed by my side. You've encouraged me. I...finally realized who you really are, Naruto. The Hero who protected the leaf village...beloved by everyone in the village...I'm just one of them. That mischevious little dummy who I knew...little by little is becoming this great and important man. And I've been watching right from next to him. But all Sasuke's done is commit crimes and break my heart. More and more he's becoming a different person, so distant. But Naruto-you're right here, where I can touch you like this....you make me feel safe. Right now, from the bottom of my heart, I-"
Every single one. Naruto is the hero, Naruto is right there, Naruto has been there for her, Naruto is more than what he was and she's seen it all, she's been there watching it. She's realized who he is. Sasuke is a criminal, Sasuke keeps becoming more distant, Sasuke is committing crimes and breaking her heart.

Yet after all of that, Naruto not only degrades NaruSaku's thought process by still chalking it up to "an unfunny joke" but Sakura still cannot bring herself to love him romantically. And if she meant what she'd said, she wouldn't have changed up her words to say "well, a girl is fickle like the autumn skies right?"
Spoiler:


If she really had thought knowing all of this about Naruto was enough to change her perspective on him romantically, she wouldn't have used such a derogatory saying to describe everything she'd said to him. So unless NS is trying to say that it thinks Sakura is such a moron that she acknowledged everything good about Naruto and how it had benefited her, yet is still confused and thinks true love is all about looks, which sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if that is indeed the case, there's really nothing left to say here.

Again, I see dead pairing.
This is why I've kinda gotten tired of debating NS. It just keeps rehashing the same 'ol arguments, bringing back moments that have completely fallen into irrelevancy and pretending they still matter and foreshadow NS moments, but of course NH's more recent moments and foreshadowing that actually comes true; it's just weak *sigh*
The failfession is NS' elephant in the room. NS pretend not to see it, and just confuses it with their fanfics about Sakura being honest about it (DB is gospel, but f*uck what Kishi says in interviews).
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by racefan1992 on Sat May 31, 2014 12:38 pm

lily567 wrote:
http:
guys i want you to read this entire thread and tell me what you guys think.

The OP doesn't get it, period.

Although that thread is 2 years old, my previous statement applies. NS just does not get it.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sat May 31, 2014 12:51 pm

And I love how NS says Sasuke don't give a crap about Sakura or her feelings for him while using databook to show Sakura's feelings for Naruto. Guess NS ignored Sasuke's databook where it says Sakura, who needed him to the very last, whose love made Sasuke feel needed and he both benefited from and appreciated it.

http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=47899548&postcount=1071
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20164

(these translations have been done by trusted translators for NF. They were the ones who translated 675 that NS was denying xD).

Or that during Sakura's confesion, it says that: The one who filled his lonely existence with the emotion called love was Sakura. But as expected, he cannot respond to her feelings. He leaves with a genuine thanks as words of parting.

Or that during FoD, databook states that "Sakura's heart, thinking of Sasuke, devours the malevolent power." In other words, her feelings for Sasuke is what stopped the malevolent power of the curse mark from making him continue his rampage.

Does NS have anything of the sort for NS in its databook? I highly doubt it. LOL even DB doesn't measure up to NH/SS.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sat May 31, 2014 2:52 pm

I am going to be a little bit nasty here, don't worry all I will be doing is a bit of a comparison.

Sakura (the past): oh Sasuke-Kun you are so cool, handsome and intelligent.

in that one she never really understood Sasuke, but as the first part went on that changed drastically, she went from that to this. back then she had shallow reasons to like Sasuke.

Sakura (the present): Sasuke-Kun, I want to understand you, be there when you need me the most, I want to keep the darkness in your heart at bay. I don't care if you're handsome or cool, because I know that you aren't perfect.

now Sakura matured as a character and developed true feelings for Sasuke, she didn't have a shallow reason to love Sasuke.

Naruto (the past): a cute girl I really like, or yep she is my girlfriend (gets sent flying 100 meters (or even headbutted now)) Sakura will you go out with me?

okay, Naruto did have a crush on Sakura, and most people who have a crush on a person do tend to act a little stupid at times, but the one thing here is that he didn't really understand Sakura and her developing feelings for Sasuke, in fact he wasn't really that considerate of that point, which leads me to this point.

Naruto (the present): Sakura you still love Sasuke, I hate people who lie to themselves, Sakura loves Sasuke (no second thought) yeah I guess if you're splitting hairs I guess (gets skull bashed for his joke)

what we see here is that Naruto is considerate of Sakura feelings towards Sasuke, he understands them enough to really not want to get in the way, he has admitted it himself, even if it was something that hurt him inside, he knew that Sakura's stance on Sasuke was never going to change, he accepted it at the POAL, which in my opinion was a huge step for his character, because unlike his pranking self, it showed maturity.

NS is dead, based on Sakura's mature love for Sasuke and Naruto's maturity to acknowledge this point. if NS is going to persist in saying that Naruto is in love with Sakura and that Sakura is moving on from Sasuke because he doesn't care about her, then it is denying their (the characters) growing maturity, which means that it doesn't care if those two the N and the S have matured since day 1.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by lily567 on Sat May 31, 2014 7:11 pm

yup ns is dead alright and even the jutsu nagato used(cannot remember the name ....srry) cannot bring back this ship

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