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Obito: the story of a decline

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Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:41 am

Whereas most of the characters follow the path of improvement and development, Obito seems to have lost everything which was making him a respectable character. He was first described as someone very similar to Naruto: nice, generous and who did not hesitate to sacrifice himself for his friends. Then, when he appeared as Tobi, the villain hiding under the mask, the founder and boss of Akatsuki, he was even seen as a charismatic character, a badass...

Everything changed when the mask was broken and the famous "because you let Rin die". This sentence has disappointed many because his obsession of Rin seems to have been the main reason behind his acts. He could not take Rin's death, he came back to Madara and started all his wrong-doings until the war... There could be a possibility that he changes by helping the alliance in getting rid of Madara and stopping the war. And this change of side from him, would be again... because of Rin.

Personally I see Obito as the exact opposite of what is a character development and that, although he could get redeemed at the end of the day.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:31 am

I just wanna say, Obito became a pedophile in my eyes  
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:55 am

Why you all think that Obito "wants" Rin in that way? She was an important person to him - the one and only probably. She supported his dreams, she filled loneliness that he had during his childhood. He don't want her as a girl, he need that important person, that gave him support he always wanted and needed. Rin was like Iruka for Naruto. The difference is that after Iruka Naruto started making more and more new bonds, while Obito didn't. He probably made bonds with Kakashi and Minato as well, but it was broken after Kakashi killed Rin and Minato wasn't there to help. He blamed them in Rin's death. Before he witnessed Rin's death, his mind already was filled with idea of a world, where even dead can live a happy life along side with you. I personally myself wouldn't mind a world, where important, but dead people are alive and can live next to me again. But dreams are not reality and it's no use to live in a artificial world, because even your emotions wouldn't be real there. But Obito was just a kid, when he faced Rin's death and was filled with idea of perfect world, any kid on his place probably would believe in a creation of a fairy tail world, where even dead can live.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:06 am

Well albeit, I feel horrible for the poor guy, but he very easily could have fixed the problem by helping instead of watching Rin die. He said to Kakashi 'You let Rin die'
No Obito. YOU let Rin die. He watched and waited for the 'perfect moment' to come out. Instead, she died in front of him while Kakashi was fighting enemy ninja, and she stabbed herself with Kakashi's chidori.

I think it's his nonacceptance of what he let happen himself, and the fact that he piled it onto Kakashi like he did makes me lose respect for him.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:16 am

RedEyes wrote:Well albeit, I feel horrible for the poor guy, but he very easily could have fixed the problem by helping instead of watching Rin die. He said to Kakashi 'You let Rin die'
No Obito. YOU let Rin die. He watched and waited for the 'perfect moment' to come out. Instead, she died in front of him while Kakashi was fighting enemy ninja, and she stabbed herself with Kakashi's chidori.

I think it's his nonacceptance of what he let happen himself, and the fact that he piled it onto Kakashi like he did makes me lose respect for him.
Rin was killed while Obito was on the road to them (I just went through 604 again). When he was running, there image of stabbed Rin appeared in his right eye, because his and Kakashi's sharingans are connected. After this he started running faster and when he came to the place, Rin already was with Kakashi's hand through her chest. And while Obito was running, he was asking Zetsu "What the Yellow Flash is doing at a time like this?!". Those, who were have to protect Rin didn't made it. Kakashi admitted, that he is a terrible friend, who didn't kept his promise.

The thing is that for Obito at that moment it was like the whole world turned against him and became "Hell".
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:22 am

Well you have a point there..
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:03 am

For me Obito is just understandable villain.

For me it's much more harder to understand is that Orochimaru went so obsessed with experiments because of his parents death (if I did not misunderstood). How many people were killed, tortured because of him? How many lifes he ruined? And all of this were for the same - selfishness. He was so obsessed with knowledge of every existed jutsu, that he stoped care about anything. For him everything in front of him became an object to slaughter for another experiments. All of this for immortality and knowledge of every jutsu.

Obito at least was moved by idea of creation of a perfect peace, which is in it's core is a noble reason, Obito just choose not the best way to achieve this goal.

Yet Orochimaru changed and was accepted by everyone on the battlefield, no one was against him been part of a team, despite what he have done in the past (and he have done a lot of horrible things actually).

Obito was also blamed, because he didn't honored Rin's death and her beliefs. Orochimaru also didn't honored his parents death and his sensei by actions he started making. Yet again - Orochimaru changed, accepted and forgiven. Obito - hated by everyone and understood only by Naruto and me =(
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:32 am

Well I think the whole theme was already this: Forgiveness.
Orochimaru did some shit, but, if he helps during the war, most of his crimes could actually be forgiven.

Obito is the CAUSE of the war. No forgiveness.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:38 am

Orochimaru should not automatically be forgiven for his deeds but at least he is who he is. He is a experiments' freak and I hope he remains how he is... That's always easy to defend someone by accusing someone else but at least, Orochimaru built his own identity unlike his assistant Kabuto...

Obito played the big boss but as soon as his mask felt, he showed how confused he was and how his identity turned only around Rin. In fact his badasserie felt down together with his mask. Again, that's not a question of who did the worst things but more a question of what the characters represent.   And Obito is someone who did not grow up. That's why he can't assume Rin's death and put the blame on everybody instead of getting over it.  

Obito was not that alone. He thought he had only Rin to support his dreams but Minato believed in that dream too. So Obito fooled himself by thinking that he was all alone and his purpose is to fool himself by creating an artificial world. This so called peace he wants to create is even not something he is doing as an ideal but it's something he is doing to see Rin again.

This Rin obsession has made him lost his own identity and that's the problem because as long as he was Tobi, he could keep a kind of mystery which gave him so much charisma.

Maybe the best thing for him before dying would be that he is put under izanami like Kabuto...lol

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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:55 am

He's actually very similar to Kabuto in the sense that he can't find his own identity if you think about it...
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:02 am

Irielo wrote:Obito was not that alone. He thought he had only Rin to support his dreams but Minato believed in that dream too.
Let's interpret it like this:

Rin was a pillar, Minato and Kakashi were props of the pillar.

Rin died - pillar crumbled, which meant for Obito, that props weren't so reliable as he thought. So does this reality - it's not reliable, because it brings deaths, hatred, sadness, etc.

That's why in all this mess I started dislike Kakashi and Minato so much. Why? Let me show you.

Sasuke was willing to kill Karin, Sakura, Kakashi and Naruto and he was willing to destroy Konoha and everyone there because of Itachi and his clan. What Naruto did? He continued to believe in Sasuke and that he can be saved, despite what he has done and was going to do, because he is his best friend and because Naruto always believes, that there is always the best in people.

What Kakashi did, when he faced Obito 1 on 1 and listened him? Kakashi gave up on his friend, he made resolve to kill Obito in order to "save Obito from the past". This was BS right there for me. Exactly like that Kakashi was ready to kill Sasuke. It's like for him killing is the only possible way to solve any problem. He lacks faith. Unlike Naruto, who believed in such people, like Gaara, Nagato, Itachi, Sasuke and now even Obito. Saving is much more better, than killing.

Minato - he was ready to destroy his own student mercessely. I didn't saw even a tear from his eyes during his fight against Obito, it's like he absolutely didn't cared about his corrupted student and everything he wanted is to kill Obito. This is so not like Naruto. Even Naruto cried for Obito! And Minato didn't! Minato, the person who knew Obito much longer, than Naruto, didn't shed a tear for his poor student... It's just so...

Forget it =(
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:25 am

GreatKungLao wrote:
Minato - he was ready to destroy his own student mercessely. I didn't saw even a tear from his eyes during his fight against Obito, it's like he absolutely didn't cared about his corrupted student and everything he wanted is to kill Obito. This is so not like Naruto. Even Naruto cried for Obito! And Minato didn't! Minato, the person who knew Obito much longer, than Naruto, didn't shed a tear for his poor student... It's just so...

Forget it =(
Minato was angry with himself. He was upset not to have been there when Obito needed it but when he saw that Obito became such a monster he rightly, and Kakashi was right too decided to destroy him to preserve the honor of the former Obito. Moreover Minato should forgive easily the one who cowardly attacked his wife when she was giving birth, the one who was ready to explode his son, the one who denied him the right to have a family life and you say that he was the one acting without mercy?

You must be kidding man! And please, stop putting the blame on other characters to justify or defend Obito.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:29 am

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Minato - he was ready to destroy his own student mercessely. I didn't saw even a tear from his eyes during his fight against Obito, it's like he absolutely didn't cared about his corrupted student and everything he wanted is to kill Obito. This is so not like Naruto. Even Naruto cried for Obito! And Minato didn't! Minato, the person who knew Obito much longer, than Naruto, didn't shed a tear for his poor student... It's just so...

Forget it =(
Minato was angry with himself. He was upset not to have been there when Obito needed it but when he saw that Obito became such a monster he rightly, and Kakashi was right too decided to destroy him to preserve the honor of the former Obito. Moreover Minato should forgive easily the one who cowardly attacked his wife when she was giving birth, the one who was ready to explode his son, the one who denied him the right to have a family life and you say that he was the one acting without mercy?

You must be kidding man! And please, stop putting the blame on other characters to justify or defend Obito.
For Naruto Obito has killed Neji, his parents and more. Yet, Naruto was trying to save Obito (which he succeed). Looks like Naruto's Will of Fire is stronger, than Kakashi's and Minato's.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:39 am

GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Minato - he was ready to destroy his own student mercessely. I didn't saw even a tear from his eyes during his fight against Obito, it's like he absolutely didn't cared about his corrupted student and everything he wanted is to kill Obito. This is so not like Naruto. Even Naruto cried for Obito! And Minato didn't! Minato, the person who knew Obito much longer, than Naruto, didn't shed a tear for his poor student... It's just so...

Forget it =(
Minato was angry with himself. He was upset not to have been there when Obito needed it but when he saw that Obito became such a monster he rightly, and Kakashi was right too decided to destroy him to preserve the honor of the former Obito. Moreover Minato should forgive easily the one who cowardly attacked his wife when she was giving birth, the one who was ready to explode his son, the one who denied him the right to have a family life and you say that he was the one acting without mercy?

You must be kidding man! And please, stop putting the blame on other characters to justify or defend Obito.
For Naruto Obito has killed Neji, his parents and more. Yet, Naruto was trying to save Obito (which he succeed). Looks like Naruto's Will of Fire is stronger, than Kakashi's and Minato's.
Actually yes. He is the hero after all and has been designed that way... lol. Anyway the way you defend Obito as if he was sooo poor and the rest bad including Minato and Kakashi who just tried to get rid of a threat and tried to keep a positive image of him just bluffs me. Wow really everybody is bad except Obito who is right in his actions just because of his obsession of Rin.

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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:47 am

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Minato - he was ready to destroy his own student mercessely. I didn't saw even a tear from his eyes during his fight against Obito, it's like he absolutely didn't cared about his corrupted student and everything he wanted is to kill Obito. This is so not like Naruto. Even Naruto cried for Obito! And Minato didn't! Minato, the person who knew Obito much longer, than Naruto, didn't shed a tear for his poor student... It's just so...

Forget it =(
Minato was angry with himself. He was upset not to have been there when Obito needed it but when he saw that Obito became such a monster he rightly, and Kakashi was right too decided to destroy him to preserve the honor of the former Obito. Moreover Minato should forgive easily the one who cowardly attacked his wife when she was giving birth, the one who was ready to explode his son, the one who denied him the right to have a family life and you say that he was the one acting without mercy?

You must be kidding man! And please, stop putting the blame on other characters to justify or defend Obito.
For Naruto Obito has killed Neji, his parents and more. Yet, Naruto was trying to save Obito (which he succeed). Looks like Naruto's Will of Fire is stronger, than Kakashi's and Minato's.
Actually yes. He is the hero after all and has been designed that way... lol. Anyway the way you defend Obito as if he was sooo poor and the rest bad including Minato and Kakashi who just tried to get rid of a threat and tried to keep a positive image of him just bluffs me. Wow really everybody is bad except Obito who is right in his actions just because of his obsession of Rin.

I'm defending the character, not his actions. I don't like what Obito did, I don't like what he became. But I like Uchiha Obito, the one, who Tobi stoped to be, but returned to this personality again in latest chapter.

And don't you feel ashamed for Kakashi and Minato, because they show less emotions towards the person they knew so well, than did Naruto, who knew Obito only a day?
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Rin on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:48 am

Sorry, but I am on Obito, as are Naruto and Hinata and Rin.

Obito, the likeable guy. His determination is the strongest. I myself live in the world where my dog, my parents, my grandparents, my uncle and my grandmother died. Having a world where dead live, even it is fictional, inspires not only me, but also a lot of people who lost their loved ones. Even the characters of the show should support it. You may hate me for this, but I believe that the possibility of Naruto getting his parents back, the Hyuga getting Hizashi back are worth it no matter how horrible it might seem.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:04 am

GreatKungLao wrote:I'm defending the character, not his actions. I don't like what Obito did, I don't like what he became. But I like Uchiha Obito, the one, who Tobi stoped to be, but returned to this personality again in latest chapter.

And don't you feel ashamed for Kakashi and Minato, because they show less emotions towards the person they knew so well, than did Naruto, who knew Obito only a day?
Why should I feel ashamed for them? On the opposite, I admire them because they were enough empathic to realize that Obito was no more and instead of leaving the monster he had became go on, they have preferred to destroy him in order to keep this good image they had of him.

Anyway, regarding the fact that Obito might change again... Obito did all these horrible things because of Rin, he was even before manipulated by Madara and now he has been TnJ by Naruto who used Rin again to bring him back on the good side. So one could say that Obito has now been manipulated by Naruto and Rin was again the reason of this change. That's especially why his story is pathetic and that was one of the reason I've started this thread.

@Index-chan This thread is not about Obito's goals but about his identity as a character. Please try to read the first post and you'll get what I mean.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by GreatKungLao on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:12 am

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:I'm defending the character, not his actions. I don't like what Obito did, I don't like what he became. But I like Uchiha Obito, the one, who Tobi stoped to be, but returned to this personality again in latest chapter.

And don't you feel ashamed for Kakashi and Minato, because they show less emotions towards the person they knew so well, than did Naruto, who knew Obito only a day?
Why should I feel ashamed for them? On the opposite, I admire them because they were enough empathic to realize that Obito was no more and instead of leaving the monster he had became go on, they have preferred to destroy him in order to keep this good image they had of him.

Anyway, regarding the fact that Obito might change again... Obito did all these horrible things because of Rin, he was even before manipulated by Madara and now he has been TnJ by Naruto who used Rin again to bring him back on the good side. So one could say that Obito has now been manipulated by Naruto and Rin was again the reason of this change. That's especially why his story is pathetic and that was one of the reason I've started this thread.

@Index-chan This thread is not about Obito's goals but about his identity as a character. Please try to read the first post and you'll get what I mean.
Madara manipulated Obito by using his hole, sadness and hatred. Naruto reminded Obito about what Rin actually believed in and who exactly she wanted to watch over - not the Tobi, but Uchiha Obito, the one he was once in the past. Naruto reminded Obito same thing, that Hinata told him - you should honor the memory of those, who died, that way they wouldn't be dead completely, the only way to really kill someone is to forget that person and go against your own words, that those people supported. Naruto reminded Obito about what Rin believed in and what she appreciated and that she wouldn't like Obito the way he became, because he went against his own words. With Naruto's help, Rin became alive once again in Obito's heart and memory, but not the dead body that needs to be resurrected.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Irielo on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:18 am

GreatKungLao wrote:Madara manipulated Obito by using his hole, sadness and hatred. Naruto reminded Obito about what Rin actually believed in and who exactly she wanted to watch over - not the Tobi, but Uchiha Obito, the one he was once in the past. Naruto reminded Obito same thing, that Hinata told him - you should honor the memory of those, who died, that way they wouldn't be dead completely, the only way to really kill someone is to forget that person and go against your own words, that those people supported. Naruto reminded Obito about what Rin believed in and what she appreciated and that she wouldn't like Obito the way he became, because he went against his own words. With Naruto's help, Rin became alive once again in Obito's heart and memory, but not the dead body that needs to be resurrected.
You just pointed out what I was meaning actually. That's it Obito remained someone who never grew up. He is stuck in his past and Naruto had to use this same past for him to probably come back on the good side.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by Strawberry on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:34 pm

^ You hit the nail right on the head. Obito Uchiha never grew up. He's still a stuck up brat whose world revolves around Rin. He knows loneliness? That's still BS! Yes, we just found out his parents were CONVENIENTLY dead (I say conveniently because that seems like something Kishimoto pulled right off his sleeve to make a connection with Naruto), but he still was part of a respectable clan. He still had that old lady he helped around, and he had friends in the academy. Rin wasn't the only one who filled his "lonely" existence, so him losing his mind because of her and still to this day doing all of those things because of her, makes no damn sense. He's even recognized it himself when a couple of chapters ago he was thinking about what his life could've been had he returned to Konoha. And it's freaking stupid that he's only NOW thinking about that, when he's had so many years to reflect on his actions...

Words cannot express how much this character irritates me. He had so much potential to be much more, so much more than what he is. But it can't be helped when Kishimoto gave him a stupid reason for doing what he's done. His character is nonredeemable for me, he just needs to die already.

Though the way things are going and with the history Naruto has of "converting" most of his enemies to the good side, it's pretty much a given he will be redeemed, which is just... lame.

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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:52 pm

Thank you! ^^^^ It's like, even OROCHIMARU had a bigger friggin purpose than Obito -_-
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by racefan1992 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:30 am

@Strawbeery nailed it.
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by BlackNoon on Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Obito is just a selfish, whiny, obsessed, character full of self-pity with a constant woe-is-me attitude. Let's count the characters he's killed so far: Minato, Kushina, Hiruzen's wife, Neji, Shikaku, Inoichi, part of the Uchiha clan (not that I liked most of them anyways), and countless others. And what's his exuse? "Because you let Rin die", well boo fucking hoo. Hiruzen's wife and predecessor were killed, but he didn't try to control his village, hell, he was the nicest old guy ever. Neji's dad was killed, and yes he hated the main branch, only because he didn't know the truth till later, then he basically became Hinata's protector. In contrast to Obito knowing exactly what happend and becoming a little bitch about it. As for Sasuke, yeah he was a complete psycho after learning about Itachi, and who wouldn't? Knowing that the person you just killed was the one that loved you the most. Kakashi, lost his two closest friends, one of them killed by his hand, both of his parent's dead, father committing suicide, and his sensei being killed by Obito, and what did Kakashi do? He maned the fuck up! Madara, Nagato, Orochimaru, and Danzo are the only one's worthy of the title of villain. As for Nagato, he wasn't trying to control people, he was basically speeding up the process of war. He was going to give them weapons and let act on their own. Obito however is trying to control everyone. Not everyone is as weak as Obito, not everyone is weak enough to live in false reality. Oh, as for Naruto, Obito has killed almost everyone close to him, and even though he's only half the age of Obito he is a hell of a lot more of a man. So why can't Obito man up like everyone else has? *sigh* Obito supporters.....  
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by MichaelInsanity on Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:23 pm

I actually.... Wow I actually agree with you.. He has been such a bitch.. like this whole entire series, from Tobi, to Madara to Obito all together, he has just been a shit stirring asswipe, and to be honest, I don't see how anyone appreciates his characterization anymore...
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Re: Obito: the story of a decline

Post by BlackNoon on Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:24 pm

RedEyes wrote:I actually.... Wow I actually agree with you.. He has been such a bitch.. like this whole entire series, from Tobi, to Madara to Obito all together, he has just been a shit stirring asswipe, and to be honest, I don't see how anyone appreciates his characterization anymore...
I only liked him when he was the funny Tobi. -.- Still not sure if that was him or Spiral Zetsu talking though.
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