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The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by JulaShona on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:21 pm

Irielo wrote:
JulaShona wrote:I think you misunderstood it a little bit. The Hyûga clan can be the oldest clan in the village. It just wasn't from the beginning in konoha, but it's still possible that the clan existed before all the other clans. It just joined the village later.
I don't think I misunderstood. I actually think the same, the Hyuugas might have joined Konoha later but that does not mean that they're not the oldest clan. That's why I've posted this link of chapter 78 when Kakashi introduced this clan to Naruto and the others. Anyway was your last statement addressed to me or not?
Spoiler:
The reply was meant for Strawberry-san. I just gave the quote from you where you gave the link. But the reply was for Strwaberry-san. I edited the post, so that nobody gets confused.


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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:25 pm

JulaShona wrote:
Irielo wrote:
JulaShona wrote:I think you misunderstood it a little bit. The Hyûga clan can be the oldest clan in the village. It just wasn't from the beginning in konoha, but it's still possible that the clan existed before all the other clans. It just joined the village later.
I don't think I misunderstood. I actually think the same, the Hyuugas might have joined Konoha later but that does not mean that they're not the oldest clan. That's why I've posted this link of chapter 78 when Kakashi introduced this clan to Naruto and the others. Anyway was your last statement addressed to me or not?
Spoiler:
The reply was meant for Strawberry-san. I just gave the quoute from you where you gave the link. But the reply was for Strwaberry-san. 
Spoiler:
Thanks to clear up things Jula! I just wanted to be sure about it.


I just hope now that Hiashi will start to open his mouth and reveal some informations too... I can't believe that the Uchihas are the only ones to possess all this knowledge...
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by JulaShona on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:29 pm

Irielo wrote:

I just hope now that Hiashi will start to open his mouth and reveal some informations too... I can't believe that the Uchihas are the only ones to possess all this knowledge...
I'm totally with you on that. I'm getting a little bit impatient and it annoys me a little bit these days that it's always Senjju this and Uchiha that. But what about the Hyûgas?


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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:42 pm

JulaShona wrote:
Irielo wrote:

I just hope now that Hiashi will start to open his mouth and reveal some informations too... I can't believe that the Uchihas are the only ones to possess all this knowledge...
I'm totally with you on that. I'm getting a little bit impatient and it annos me a little bit these days that it's always Senjju this and Uchiha that. But what about the Hyûgas?
Exactly! The Hyuugas were introduced in a way that it is, as far as I'm concerned, difficult to imagine that they don't know more about the Shinobi's history. It's like someone cooking a meal which smells good (Hyuuga's introduction or presentation) but does not finish the cooking and leave it without any consideration (still a lot of questions left unanswered about this supposed oldest clan).

There is the Uzumaki clan as well but for now Naruto and Karin are still too young to reveal deep infos. The ones who could give some infos (regarding the Uzumakis) are the former Hokages, Madara or why not Hiashi if Kishi decides to integrate him in the whole revelations' thing.
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Strawberry on Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:51 am

I think you guys misunderstood Kakashi's statement a little bit. Them having the oldest bloodline doesn't mean they are the oldest clan. If you think about it, the Hyuuga having the oldest and "greatest" bloodline in Konoha makes sense, because at that point the Uchiha clan had already been exterminated, and we know not of another clan in Konoha who posses a bloodline limit. Character statements like that should be taken with a grain of salt, when there's other information that points out to the Uchiha and Senju being actually the oldest clans in existence.

I want the Hyuuga's relation to the Uchiha to be cleared up as much as the next person wants it. But I don't think we should blow it out of proportion either. Their doujutsu HAVE to be related somehow, but them having some sort of piece of vital information that they have kept to themselves for whatever reason, when not even Hashirama himself knew about such things, seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:18 am

^ Sorry but I don't think that there are too much expectations about he Hyuuga clan. Itachi and Sasuke were still alive when Kakashi said that. So the Uchiha clan was not completely destroyed and he stated that both clans were related:

www.onemanga.me/naruto_manga/78/13/

So if one follows that logic, the Hyuuga clan is older than the Uchiha. If that's the case that the Sharingan comes from the Byakugan, then the Hyuugas are even closer to the So6P than the Uchihas....
And I don't know if it's just a coincidence that the symbol on Hinata's jacket (will of fire) is at the same place where the stone tablet is. I can't remember anybody else having this symbol on his/her clothes.

Spoiler:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Hyuuga+symbol&start=158&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1280&bih=638&tbm=isch&tbnid=24UEbjLJ9vUa1M:&imgrefurl=http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D361968&docid=zsEvOiNjW8SYXM&imgurl=http://s11.postimg.org/fux1p61dv/Same_Symbol.png&w=440&h=280&ei=SCdMUoSwOdDXsgbSm4CoCg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:67,s:100,i:205&iact=rc&page=13&tbnh=159&tbnw=250&ndsp=13&tx=16&ty=48

Btw, I would feel disappointed if the Hyuugas did not have any revelation or info. A lot of the past has already been told by the Uchihas (Madara, Obito), then Senjus (Hashirama and Tobirama while talking to Sasuke and recently Hashirama with his flashbacks). I do think that the Hyuugas have a or some pieces of the puzzle. This piece of info could come into play if Hinata (sorry I'm fanboying), like some of us think, evolved in a way which has not been reached yet by any Hyuuga.

With chapter 649, she has expressed her wish to be by Naruto's side again and she is still willing to improve... So I still think that the Hyuugas played an important role in this history and that something might have happened between them and the Uchihas. How the story will now develop? Still have to wait and see.
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Strawberry on Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:17 pm

^ Sasuke was the only Uchiha in the village at the time. I think Kakashi's statement is pretty clear: The Hyuga was the clan with the oldest bloodline at the moment. A missing ninja and a kid don't constitute a clan. Though I did say I agree both clans have to be related somehow, even though Kakashi said it was just a rumor, I think it's a fact.

I don't think the Hyuga clan can be older than the Uchiha clan, because it doesn't fit in the storyline we have so far. Kaguya and the Sage were the very first shinobis to ever exist. The Sage had two sons: the Senju clan ancestor, and the Uchiha clan ancestor. They were the origin of the Shinobi world as we know it. At best, the Hyuga clan could be just as old as the Uchiha clan, if what we think it's true and they are descendants of the Uchiha ancestor as well. They can't possibly be an older clan than the Uchiha and Senju, because the Uchiha and Senju are direct descendants of the very first shinobi. There couldn't possibly be any shinobi clans before that, and there couldn't possibly be a bloodline limit before that either, because all chakra comes from the Shinju.

I think it's understandable that she wore the symbol of the Will of Fire. Sakura wears the symbol of Hashirama's sage mode. It's probably representing respect towards the Will of Fire and Hashirama, just like the people in Konoha wearing the Uzumaki symbol shows their friendship. The same symbol being in the Uchiha hideout should be a link to the Will of Fire, not to Hinata's jacket, in my opinion. But I can't tell you you can't see it that way, so it's fine.

It's good to theorize, but the thing is, I see no reason for the Hyuuga to be hiding some information from the village. I also can't think of anything they can add we don't know so far. It seems to me like the only thing we are missing are just loose ends since the ending is supposed to be really close. - my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I do want the Hyuuga's relation to the Uchiha and their link to the Sage to be revealed. I just don't think it'll be something huge. I imagine it kind of like the reveal of the Uzumaki being related to the Senju.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:06 pm

When Kakashi said that the "origins of the Uchiha clan lies with the Hyuuga" and before that they are the "oldest bloodline" of Konoha, I really thought they were older... I like to imagine that some things might have happened between those two.

And the stone tablet could be one of those. For instance (that's just a theory), the Hyuuga were the ones who were keeping it but the Uchihas stole it or the Hyuugas could not read it and gave it to their relative the Uchihas who could.

All this thing about the bloodline and the history are still a bit confused to me... But to come back on Kakashi's statements about the origin of the Uchiha, could it be that the Sharingan is a combination of Hyuuga and Uzumaki like the fact that the Rinnegan can be obtained from a Senju-Uchiha combination?

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by JulaShona on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:33 pm

Irielo wrote:When Kakashi said that the "origins of the Uchiha clan lies with the Hyuuga" and before that they are the "oldest bloodline" of Konoha, I really thought they were older... I like to imagine that some things might have happened between those two.

And the stone tablet could be one of those. For instance (that's just a theory), the Hyuuga were the ones who were keeping it but the Uchihas stole it or the Hyuugas could not read it and gave it to their relative the Uchihas who could.

All this thing about the bloodline and the history are still a bit confused to me... But to come back on Kakashi's statements about the origin of the Uchiha, could it be that the Sharingan is a combination of Hyuuga and Uzumaki like the fact that the Rinnegan can be obtained from a Senju-Uchiha combination?  
If you have these kind of questions about the bloodlines then I can only refer you to this theory>>> Link Maybe it will help.
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:42 pm

^That's a very interesting theory from TwinSteps. I just hope that these issues will be dealt with. Some more infos are needed to explain what really happened during the Shinobi world and the clans' history.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Strawberry on Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:32 am

Irielo wrote:When Kakashi said that the "origins of the Uchiha clan lies with the Hyuuga" and before that they are the "oldest bloodline" of Konoha, I really thought they were older... I like to imagine that some things might have happened between those two.

And the stone tablet could be one of those. For instance (that's just a theory), the Hyuuga were the ones who were keeping it but the Uchihas stole it or the Hyuugas could not read it and gave it to their relative the Uchihas who could.

All this thing about the bloodline and the history are still a bit confused to me... But to come back on Kakashi's statements about the origin of the Uchiha, could it be that the Sharingan is a combination of Hyuuga and Uzumaki like the fact that the Rinnegan can be obtained from a Senju-Uchiha combination?  
But that's the thing, character statements like that should be taken with a grain of salt, especially when it directly contradicts the storyline the manga has given us. There's no way the Uchiha clan's origin lies within the Hyuuga, because the Uchiha clan's origins lie within the Sage. The son of the Sage himself was an Uchiha. Besides, Kakashi is not really a reliable source because he even thought the Sage didn't really exist and was just a myth. Like I said, it's completely possible the Hyuuga are also descendents of the Uchiha ancestor, but them being older than the Uchiha just doesn't fit in the storyline we're given as of now.

I think both the Sharingan and the Byakugan derived from the Uchiha ancestor doujutsu. If you look at his eyes, he didn't inherit the Rinnegan, but a mutation of it that wasn't neither Sharingan nor Byakugan. The doujutsu the Uchiha ancestor had could've been a Sharingan with the insight ability of the Byakugan, and I think that would've been one heck of a doujutsu. I think as time passed, the two doujutsus came to be from it.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:03 am

So, basing myself on your last statement, both, Byakugan and Sharingan came from the So6P's first son. This difference in this eyes' evolution might have been at the origin of two distinct clans: the Uchiha and the Hyuuga.

That would be interesting to know then how this Doujutsu evolved to become on one side the Sharingan and on the other side the Byakugan. The only answer I can for now imagine is that this Doujutsu from the elder son evolved through mixing with other clans (wedding...).

Maybe the answer lies... on the stone tablet.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Strawberry on Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:55 pm

^ I think so, yes. The Uchiha ancestor inherited the Sage's eyes, so I think it makes sense all doujutsus came from him. And mating with other clans may have caused the eye to evolve differently until the ones we know today came to be.

LOL! Probably. Though I'd like to know who the author of the tablet really is. It could've been the Sage, or it could've been the Uchiha ancestor. I'm willing to bet on the latter.

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:10 pm

^That's a good question too. Who is the author of this tablet? If it's the first son, then one could understand how the Uchihas came to possess it. That would make sense somehow because he was their ancestor.

If it's the So6P, then why and how did it fall into the Uchihas' hands?

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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Graeystone on Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:08 am

Irielo wrote:^That's a good question too. Who is the author of this tablet? If it's the first son, then one could understand how the Uchihas came to possess it. That would make sense somehow because he was their ancestor.

If it's the So6P, then why and how did it fall into the Uchihas' hands?
The Older Son stole it after So6P died and left to his children who would become the Uchiha.
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by JulaShona on Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:16 am

^
Lol, that's what I just tought, too.
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Irielo on Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:28 am

Graeystone wrote:
Irielo wrote:^That's a good question too. Who is the author of this tablet? If it's the first son, then one could understand how the Uchihas came to possess it. That would make sense somehow because he was their ancestor.

If it's the So6P, then why and how did it fall into the Uchihas' hands?
The Older Son stole it after So6P died and left to his children who would become the Uchiha.
I'd like it if that happened this way because it would make the story more spicy imo. This tablet could have been another source of conflicts between the So6P first descents...
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Re: The stone tablet of the Uchihas and its secrets

Post by Strawberry on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:44 pm

Graeystone wrote:The Older Son stole it after So6P died and left to his children who would become the Uchiha.
I like this, it makes sense. It wouldn't seem logical that the Sage chose the younger son as his successor, yet left this tablet with all of this information to his older son, and nothing to his successor. Good thinking.

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