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The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:20 pm

I'm not surprised. NS also apparently thinks Naruto didn't switch the position of the handhold with Hinata in 616, but that it was an "art error." LULZ.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by itachi75 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:35 am

Skywardstrike wrote:
51-mustang wrote:
itachi75 wrote:l
Wait...i have seen this username before...AND the writting style...do you frequent NB?
Thats right, i am the one and the only Itachi75. i have written alot of threads.
-
i have battled NS in the trenches, through the fields, in the sky, even former mods.
-
but then i realized how pointless it was and just gave up  i haven't been on their to debate in ages, and yesterday i brought up NH and i just got insulted. not to mention these are scenes that prove NS is manga approved
Spoiler:




none of them really make that much sense if you ask me.
-
I feel that we all should read this http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Naruto_Uzumaki%27s_Relationships
^ it is basically a unbiased view on pairings^
it even showed me i was being a little biased.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by racefan1992 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:58 am

^

That wiki can be edited by anyone. Take it with a grain of salt.

And no, the manga was never "NS approved." Where the **** did that come from?
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Zori on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:25 am

@Strawberry
NarSak claims its parallels with panels right?
Spoiler:
So I used this
Spoiler:
Me to NS: Obviously, LeexGai is paralled to NartoXSakura. I mean same panels dude, and Gai and Naruto parallel eachother.. Look at those same panels. Can't deny facts.

NS: I don't think you understand how parallels work.
 
Me: Oh but isn't this the NS parallel method?

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by lily567 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:55 am

when I was reading this I shake my head and I started laughing
the arguments... I just can't

http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=430737:

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by JulaShona on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:09 am

Spoiler:

Zori wrote:@Strawberry
NarSak claims its parallels with panels right?
Spoiler:
So I used this
Spoiler:
Me to NS: Obviously, LeexGai is paralled to NartoXSakura. I mean same panels dude, and Gai and Naruto parallel eachother.. Look at those same panels. Can't deny facts.

NS: I don't think you understand how parallels work.
 
Me: Oh but isn't this the NS parallel method?

This is unbelievable.  
NS for sure becomes more and more desperate. This is Kishi-sama's drawingstyle! When Kishi-sama wants to make a parallel then it would look like that:
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

lily567 wrote:when I was reading this I shake my head and I started laughing
the arguments... I just can't

http:
Well... I don't know what to say, but I've seen way worse than that. And it was NS who started that quarrel in that Thread, because this was a very neutral summary of what happened regarding to a certain genre (which in this case is romance) with an opinion to that. That user didn't say anything about NS, NH or SS! Just a summary of the happenings and his opinion to that. That poor user was attacked by NS for just beeing neutral! >>>  
Seems like NS get's always very angry when Sakura's "confession" is mentioned and that she is in love with Sasuke.
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Ponyta on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:42 am

Sounds like they're going thru the  5 stages of grief. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Well, more or less they are stuck in the first two stages. If they have good coping skill eventually they'll make it to acceptance. Good luck to them.

 
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by itachi75 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:33 am

just leave them be guys, lets just let kishi defend us, just be patient and soon/probably sasusaku or naruhina will be cannon, and then it will all be over.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Uzumaki Neji on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:59 pm

When NS say that Sakura is "confused", it seems like it is projecting its own confusion onto the manga.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:08 pm

^
NS is referring to third databook. But as usual, it omits things that go against it.




[Naruto]
In her childhood, Sasuke was the object of her yearning, then loving feelings. Naruto was just the nuisance that would force itself between Sasuke and her, and ruin the day in some fashion. But looking back on the past after a few missions handled together, Sakura suddenly realized. In her painful moments, when she'd abandoned even the will to live, the one who'd protect her and encourage her was Naruto, the supposedly annoying one... What feelings does she harbor towards Naruto?... As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer.

This, is what NS is talking about. NS says Sakura is confused about her feelings, but the databook never even says this. It just says "what feelings does she harbor toward Naruto? As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer.

But this databook was ages ago, and as of 540, she has found her answer, and it is Sasuke, not Naruto. NS doesn't want to admit this, so it still says she's confused, but she isn't, and never was.

Also, NS uses "Sakura's heart beats faster for Naruto" but ignores this:


-Does her heart beat unexpectedly fast before the unforeseen, rapid growth of her childhood friend...?
.....


-The next second, her punch flies in the blink of an eye and hits him! Is Naruto a major pain in her neck......?!

 

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by racefan1992 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:42 pm

lily567 wrote:when I was reading this I shake my head and I started laughing
the arguments... I just can't

http:
I'm not laughing, i'm rather upset and mad. The person gives an honest opinion (to which i can see where the person is coming from) but too attacked like that? And have that "evidence" shoved about?

I'm lost right now............ I really don't know right now...........
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:44 pm

JulaShona wrote:
Spoiler:

Zori wrote:@Strawberry
NarSak claims its parallels with panels right?
Spoiler:
So I used this
Spoiler:
Me to NS: Obviously, LeexGai is paralled to NartoXSakura. I mean same panels dude, and Gai and Naruto parallel eachother.. Look at those same panels. Can't deny facts.

NS: I don't think you understand how parallels work.
 
Me: Oh but isn't this the NS parallel method?

This is unbelievable.  
NS for sure becomes more and more desperate. This is Kishi-sama's drawingstyle! When Kishi-sama wants to make a parallel then it would look like that:
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

lily567 wrote:when I was reading this I shake my head and I started laughing
the arguments... I just can't

http:
Well... I don't know what to say, but I've seen way worse than that. And it was NS who started that quarrel in that Thread, because this was a very neutral summary of what happened regarding to a certain genre (which in this case is romance) with an opinion to that. That user didn't say anything about NS, NH or SS! Just a summary of the happenings and his opinion to that. That poor user was attacked by NS for just beeing neutral! >>>  
Seems like NS get's always very angry when Sakura's "confession" is mentioned and that she is in love with Sasuke.
Simply amazing what NS would do to a poor neutral, it is better than showing bias at least you would be able to see things that you wouldn't normally see if you were biased, to attack a neutral is downright arrogant. NS seem to miss the fact that there has been no evidence of any romantic development in the series between Naruto and Sakura and in reality NaruSaku actually goes against what the characters stand for, I have stated that before.

of cause NS would get angry that the false confession was proven to be just that and that Sakura is still in love with Sasuke, it doesn't want anything to go between the pink and orange, the NS glasses it wears must have some bad side effects, surely it can't be good for your eyes, I admit I have tried wearing NarSak glasses, didn't do me any good, it looked to me that there was a NaruSaku moment in chapter 631 and it showed me that Sakura was smiling and saying this, 'yep that's right, even though there is another girl who deserves Naruto, I am going to be a bitch and take this lovely man away from her,' I took the glasses off and had to wait for my vision to be restored. only to find that Sakura outright denied it by using Skull Bash on Naruto, I looked at the NS glasses and threw them in the bin.


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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by itachi75 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:47 pm

Bubbles wrote:^
NS is referring to third databook. But as usual, it omits things that go against it.




[Naruto]
In her childhood, Sasuke was the object of her yearning, then loving feelings. Naruto was just the nuisance that would force itself between Sasuke and her, and ruin the day in some fashion. But looking back on the past after a few missions handled together, Sakura suddenly realized. In her painful moments, when she'd abandoned even the will to live, the one who'd protect her and encourage her was Naruto, the supposedly annoying one... What feelings does she harbor towards Naruto?... As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer.

This, is what NS is talking about. NS says Sakura is confused about her feelings, but the databook never even says this. It just says "what feelings does she harbor toward Naruto? As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer.

But this databook was ages ago, and as of 540, she has found her answer, and it is Sasuke, not Naruto. NS doesn't want to admit this, so it still says she's confused, but she isn't, and never was.

Also, NS uses "Sakura's heart beats faster for Naruto" but ignores this:


-Does her heart beat unexpectedly fast before the unforeseen, rapid growth of her childhood friend...?
.....


-The next second, her punch flies in the blink of an eye and hits him! Is Naruto a major pain in her neck......?!

 
you don't understand NS.  It litterally believes with every fiber in its being that 540 was sasuke, and the 631 confirms NS and crushes NH, stopping it is impossible. we read the manga, and we don't put on biased glasses that ignore the rest, of the statements.
-
we know the truth, but it doesn't want to read it.
-
to NS, NH is non-existent. Naruto has loved Sakura unwavering for 600+ chapters, Sakura's love for Sasuke is confused, while her feelings for naruto haven't changed and Hinata is just a creepy statlker girl that is naruto's friend, who doesn't love naruto, the handhold was just a chakra transfer, he held hands with every member of the alliance, including sakura, and the volume 64 cover was just hyuuga lore, nothing about naruto and Hinata's affection/relationship. It litterally said, "they ship a non-existent ship"
-
this si why i refuse to debate it you can't argue with NS glasses. that is why i say let it be. kishi is the writer and soon enough after the war is over Hinata will make her move to "walk with you after this war holding your hand, just wait for me'" and Naruto will take her hand they will walk off together, with smiing and in her thoughts"thank God he finnaly moved on from me" or "Naruto you love Hinata, i am so happy" or just ,'i am happy" or just her smiling face.
-
I have read all the stories, heard from Ns until my ears bleed, asked it personally, read It's forums,It's arguments from their own mouths, i just kept asking and asking hoping for some argument to see if the pairing could make sense, see if it had any proof for it. remained unbiased, and still none of the arguments even fit. none of it,
-
so now when it comes to debating i just will keep debating battles between CharacterxCharacter. pairing wars are boring, but i still love this thread, because i still have alot to learn, and not to metnion their are alot of cool people here :)  
-
keep up the good work guys
-
you all rock  

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by lily567 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:35 pm

racefan1992 wrote:
lily567 wrote:when I was reading this I shake my head and I started laughing
the arguments... I just can't

http:
I'm not laughing, i'm rather upset and mad. The person gives an honest opinion (to which i can see where the person is coming from) but too attacked like that? And have that "evidence" shoved about?

I'm lost right now............ I really don't know right now...........
ok let me rephrase that
the very first person who made the thread give an honest opinion and I respect that but what I am laughing at is the comment of one of those who replied.
that person is saying the things that were countered here by a lot of people and I just shaked my head and laughed at that.
what I don't understand tho is that I thought everyone is entitled to an opinion. everyone has their own opinion and views about certain things in which others may not agree. for example if one of you guys put forth an argument, well it is your opinion based on the situation. now I can agree or disagree but that does not mean that I would/should belittle you. I may have a different opinion or view but that doesn't mean that just because I have a different I would bash you. the thing is about this world is, if you want respect, you've gotta show respect to others.

back on topic
the others that were on there give their opinions as well and I don't see the reason why this person should get replies rubbed in their face like that

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:49 pm

Yes, all pairings can be biased, but I've never seen so much bias than with NS. Even it's arguments and explanations for NS are riddled with bias. When I argue NH/SS, I use actual manga evidence that actually haven't been disproven or contradicted by further manga events, but are either positive or have yet to be disproven.

NS argues the pairing by saying Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura, or he hates her, and saying Hinata only admires Naruto, and she is selfish. It says Sakura is confused and is getting over Sasuke while falling for Naruto. It says Naruto is in love with Sakura and only sees Hinata as a friend. Each one of these arguments have been contradicted by the manga, or are completely wrong.

NH/SS don't twist things like NS does. Or at least I've never seen it. NH/SS at least don't say things like:

"Naruto never liked Sakura"

"Sakura still doesn't like Naruto at all, he's just a teammate, it's reactionary"

"Naruto thinks Sakura is abusive"

"Naruto is confused and doesn't know what he wants"

These are all contradictions, not to mention retarded. But NS uses stupid ass arguments like this to prove it's pairing, yet gets mad when actual manga evidence is brought in to disprove it. In that case, it starts hissing and spitting insults. Ugh, PLEASE Kishi, drop the fucking axe on NS already. Do it clearly and undeniably.

Though I honestly don't see how he could have been more clear than mutual handhold placed as the largest picture on a damn cover but, that's NS for you.


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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:10 pm

I wouldn't drop an Axe on NS, that's just too quick, I would like for it to be slow and painful  

Like I would set NS in my ship's crosshairs aim the barrel then unleash a fiery barrage on NS until NS sinks to the bottom of the sea, no life rafts and certainly no chance of survival.

what I like is that NS uses evidence, but conveniently neglects what happens afterwards, 469-470, yes Sakura confessed, later in chapter 470 then in 474 Naruto finds out why Sakura lied to him, but NS will still say that Sakura's confession was real.

539, Sakura is thinking of Naruto, she must be in love with Naruto, about damn time, 540 comes in she clearly thinks about Sasuke, meaning that she is in love with Sasuke, but NS would simply go she is still thinking about Naruto.

631: OMG NS is so canon now, even Minato approves, later in that chapter Sasuke-Kun!!!!!, then in chapter 632 I better stop making fun of Sakura, I don't want to end up like a blood stain, then in 633 Hinata has made her choice very clear, in fact she has made it clear to Naruto.

Volume 66 cover: look, look, Naruto and Sakura are on the front cover, it means canon for NS, *okay drinks a glass of Jack Daniels* well Naruto and Hinata get a front cover and they were holding hands, not to mention how can NS neglect Sasuke, poor dude, no wonder why he is evil.

NS logic can get very nasty, even when NS has it's back against the wall, the arguments it makes to try and deny belittle real evidence while over glorifying NS moments that aren't even romantic.

Even Neutrals aren't safe from NS logic, which is really sad they can't even express their honest opinion without NS having the need to belittle them and to come up with an argument that means very little, I bet if I went around and said that NarSak goes against what the characters stand for and that Naruto and Sakura are the true threats to NaruSaku, I bet I would be bashed to no end and it would bash Hinata, even though I am not biased about it would still take it very seriously.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:03 pm

Another thing I don't get about NaruSaku.

It says 633 is still from Hinata's POV so it doesn't mean much.

Just....wtf? So Hinata's POV isn't important? NS mocks NH because a lot of it's moments are from Hinata's side. While ignoring that the only thing that kept NS together was Naruto and him not stating that he didn't have feelings for Sakura anymore.

I really don't get why NS mocks NH for having a lot of it's moments be from Hinata's POV.

Hinata is the Hina in the NaruHina pairing! She is one of the most important parts of the pairing, Naruto being the other. It takes TWO to tango and Hinata loves Naruto and has showed everyone just how much she loves him. Hinata's side is purely canon.

NS cannot say the same for it's pairing since Sakura still loves Sasuke and not Naruto and Naruto hasn't been shown to care about Sakura that way in a long time (not to mention he's having many NH moments).

Hinata is growing more confident thanks to Naruto's actions and words thus far. We even see 633 shows him smiling at her and giving her hand a squeeze. We are seeing her POV showing us Naruto's reactions. Whereas in 615, we saw Naruto's POV.

Only Naruto and Hinata's POV's matter in the long run.

NS act like because we're still getting Hinata's POV, it does't mean anything, yet it uses Yamato's words, and Sai's flashback to try and prove NaruSaku.

It ignores that Sai's flashback is from Sai's POV, not Naruto's. Sai's POV is not important the way Hinata's POV is because Sai is not involved in the pairing. Furthermore, Hinata is the one actually getting moments with Naruto, seeing into his eyes and knowing who he is.

If she's seeing Naruto smiling and squeezing her hand and is growing more confident because of this, that is a positive sign, regardless of whether Naruto has thought of the handhold yet or not.

Because Naruto still held her hand on his own volition, which he's never done with Sakura, and NS hates to admit that it still has yet to have a moment even nearly as big as 615, so it downplays it. But no matter what NS says, Naruto still is able to look into Hinata's eyes and see who she is.

Naruto stillcried when he found out she was safe and placed a hand to his heart going "thank god, thank god" (which was mimicked by Hinata as well.)

Naruto still admitted it was seeing Hinata hurt alone that made him so angry that he turned six tails. Not dead, just hurt.

All of this? The handhold, smile and hand squeeze etc, is far more than anything NS has ever received...and NS has received jack shit aside from a failfession. NS is the weakest of all the pairings and it's absolutely ridiculous that it actually thinks it would be bad writing if it didn't become canon. Sorry NS, you're just not that important to the story....or in general.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:42 pm

Hinata's POV is far more compelling than that of the third person POV NarSak receives, the reasoning behind that is because Hinata can read Naruto's thought through his eyes, so in reality NaruHina could easily be canon now because of that trait that both Naruto and Hinata share. even though Naruto and Sakura have developed a strong friendship, it doesn't get the romantic development that NaruHina gets, Naruto and Sakura understand one another but it certainly isn't to the level that Naruto and Hinata understand one another.

NS denies that, not willing to admit to the fact that NS is a weak pairing. the number of attempts to make NarSak a stronger pairing contradicts the manga and what Kishi is trying to convey, it also contradicts what the characters stand for.

Sakura is loyal to the end, she has loved Sasuke even though he has been in a dark place her feelings remain the same, yet NS claims that Sakura is confused. Really don't NS care about Sakura's feelings, forcing her to love someone that she doesn't have any romantic connection with, it even goes as far as saying that she is in love with both of them at the same time.

Naruto accepted the fact that Sakura would never be in love with him, he knew that when he made a Promise of a Lifetime, yet NS will never admit to it and claim we don't care about Naruto's feelings, also state that Naruto has always been in love with Sakura. But here is the question has Naruto ever stated that he was in love with Sakura? but then again NS will use the episode where he said he knew it was one sided but he will not stop in trying to win her over. I believe that was a filler episode.

If I remember correctly, NH had a lot of filler evidence, but it quickly evolved into canon evidence with Naruto begining to show signs of reciprocating Hinata's love, but NS has gone into filler where some, not a lot of evidence is now non-canon, yet in a particular episode Sakura would state that she could no longer be certain that she could fight the one she was in love with, I said that was a filler and NS defended it like crazy. but when I think about it more that was blown out the window late 631 and into 632.

whether NS likes it or not (most likely not) Sakura still loves Sasuke with all her heart, Naruto is starting to show signs of falling in love with Hinata.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:07 pm

NS will either use the filler episode, or it will use Sai's flashback, or chapter 3. All of which do not say Naruto loves Sakura.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:29 pm

^unfortunately for NS those things don't really count.

another argument is that it was Naruto that first complimented Sakura on her forehead, and I was like what? it was Ino that first complimented it, and when Naruto said something he was trying to trick Sakura into kissing him. what a great NS moment it was. how is it romantic to try and sneak a kiss from a girl who doesn't love you? Oh well I guess NS logic is completely broken.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by GreatKungLao on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:49 pm

I wonder, what Kishimoto would think, if he was on Naruto forums.

"Oh my God... I always wanted my shonen manga to become unique from others, I've made so much to Naruto become likable by a lot of people and to make my manga more different from the others in shonen genre, I created serious love stories between Sakura and Sasuke, Naruto and Hinata. How the f**k did you fall for NarSak? I was actually showing, that there can exist strong friendship between different genders. How can't you see all the effort and emotions I put into NaruHina and SasuSaku? Am I really look like a heartless writer and artist, who is going to abandon girls feeling after so much development I've made for them? Did you really think, that my main character Uzumaki Naruto, knowing that Hinata loves him to the point that she will die for him, would hold and squeeze Hinata's hand, gently smiling to her and saying such romantic words to reject her later? Do you even read my manga? Naruto is absolutely not like that!

By I'm glad to see, that NaruHina and SasuSaku fans are exist in the majority, I will not disappoint you, trust me."

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Bubbles on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:51 pm

Another thing is this.

NS thinks that Naruto complimenting Sakura's forehead will somehow come full circle with her realizing it was Naruto who did so. NS, for some reason actually believe Sakura is still very insecure about her forehead.

Never-mind that she's placed a noticeable diamond right smack dab in the middle of it! (drawing attention much?)

A couple things are wrong with NaruSaku's lulgic in this:

Spoiler:

[1] Naruto specifically says (while in Sasuke's form) that complimenting her forehead is something that Naruto would say, and Sakura looks noticeably disappointed, thinking: /Damn\.

That spells out that she won't give a shit who else likes her forehead. What matters to Sakura is that Sasuke likes her. NS doesn't seem to understand this.

[2] NS thinks she doesn't know it was Naruto who complimented her forehead, but I think she does.

Spoiler:
Sakura notes that the first time Sasuke and her were there by themselves, Sasuke was mad at her.

So either that forehead moment was so insignificant to her that she'd forgotten about it, or she knows it was Naruto and it was just off-paneled that she found out. Either way, it crushes NaruSaku's little dream argument about future forehead kisses.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Mustang on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:16 pm

You know you can see in the eyes of Naruto there, that he has sort of accepted the fact that Sakura only seeks Sasuke's approval, you can tell that he was hurt, knowing that she wants to be with Sasuke, I wonder what NS was thinking back then.

I bet it was fooled by Naruto's disguise, it needs to realise you don't need to trick someone into loving you, that is why NaruHina and SasuSaku are so genuine the characters don't need to trick the other into anything.

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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Fallere825 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:26 pm

@GreatKungLao The pic says it all man  

To be honest, in my humble opinion this isn't a pairing war anymore, stopped being a war a while ago. War implies it could still go either way. Right now we're just waiting for the formalities and we have a slightly more important war that needs to be cleared up first.

According to the Naruto manga i read (not sure if NS reads the same one) and the info i gather from it, in order for NS to come out on top over NH would mean Kishimoto would have to somehow find a feasible reason/situation to destroy and completely go against all the years of building and developing Hinata, Sakura, Naruto and even Sasuke's characters (the relationship and romance aspects) he has done. As compared to going along with the story he already has planned and has been leading up to. Isn't too much of a hard choice for me...doubt it will be for him either.

So when NS pops up with an argument or i see some pro NS stuff  now, i just smile agree they're entitled to their opinion just like i am to mine and confidently say we'll see how it turns out.  

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Fallere825


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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

Post by Zori on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:02 pm

That moment when you had to sit there explain to NarSak why they can't use filler episodes/scenes as facts, and NS sits there dumb founded 
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Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

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