Hello! Welcome to the official NaruHina Forums! If you're new make sure you register and introduce. :)

Otherwise, just login, you! :P

Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:15 pm

Throughout the manga characters, that Naruto originally hated (mostly villains) were giving our little hero some inspirational lessons, that also made Naruto who he is for today:

Zabuza inspired Naruto to create his own nindo, that would not allow ninja be a weapon, but a human.

Nagato inspired Naruto to definitely find the way to create peace of Jiraiya's dreams without using brutal and inhuman ways.

Itachi taught Naruto, that he shouldn't be doing everything by himself and that he should rely on his friends much more, because Minato has achieved everything in his life because of Kushina and his friends that were besides him.

Those are the major ones I've remembered, maybe you can add some too.

So I was thinking, would Obito give Naruto something like that before his death? It's just that I see Madara as the main mastermind right now and that Obito will die eventually trying to redeeme himself, while fighting against Madara, but what Obito could give Naruto before leaving the battlefield?

Me, honetsly, I was thinking about some love related subject, because this is the last thing left for Naruto to start understand properly. Obito is the first villain in the manga, who has gone rouge because of love towards one girl and that mistake of him could lead to some lesson from him to Naruto. Something like

"I was a fool and didn't respected Rin's will, I was selfish and gone absolutely mad, breaking everything that was really precious to me. My original love for Rin was consumed by hatred that came from loss *Naruto gots a flashback from Confession chapter of words "Love breeds sacrifice, which breeds hatred..."* So Naruto, don't loose yourself no matter what or this world would never change".

I don't think, that Kishimoto would kill Obito as an ultimate villain after showing us what kind of a good boy he was in the past. In other way it will be too cruel to erase someone, who was like that



So I'm expecting from him to leave the battlefield by doing something big and good.
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:26 pm

Yes why not? Obito could indeed redeem himself and give Naruto inspiration regarding love issues. He just has to change his mind and correct his actions. If that does not happen, then it will remain only a wishful thinking.

_________________
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:29 pm

You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:32 pm

GreatKungLao wrote:You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
Yes maybe it will happen like that but I'm still a bit afraid that he will try to kill Hinata to make Naruto mad.
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:45 pm

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
Yes maybe it will happen like that but I'm still a bit afraid that he will try to kill Hinata to make Naruto mad.
Maybe trying to kill Hinata will be something to make him realize everything he have done? Because in a close look Hinata might remind Obito about Rin (which she probably did in 615 already).

You know, like if Obito will try to kill Hinata and he will realize, that he is about to make Naruto go through everything that he went by himself. He will understand, that this reality is so cruel because of people that are making it that way (while looking at Madara) and it is also in a hands of people to change things for best (while looking at Naruto). Obito might be changed not just by Naruto alone, but by NaruHina relationships in general and that would be sweet.
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:02 pm

GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
Yes maybe it will happen like that but I'm still a bit afraid that he will try to kill Hinata to make Naruto mad.
Maybe trying to kill Hinata will be something to make him realize everything he have done? Because in a close look Hinata might remind Obito about Rin (which she probably did in 615 already).

You know, like if Obito will try to kill Hinata and he will realize, that he is about to make Naruto go through everything that he went by himself. He will understand, that this reality is so cruel because of people that are making it that way (while looking at Madara) and it is also in a hands of people to change things for best (while looking at Naruto). Obito might be changed not just by Naruto alone, but by NaruHina relationships in general and that would be sweet.
That would be really amazing if that happened. And Kakashi already told Obito that Naruto is like him when he was young. Now Obito must realize that he can't deny the love Naruto has found just because he lost Rin. But I'm still careful when it comes to Obito: what will touch his heart and make him change his mind? A NaruHina combo attack?
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:10 pm

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
Yes maybe it will happen like that but I'm still a bit afraid that he will try to kill Hinata to make Naruto mad.
Maybe trying to kill Hinata will be something to make him realize everything he have done? Because in a close look Hinata might remind Obito about Rin (which she probably did in 615 already).

You know, like if Obito will try to kill Hinata and he will realize, that he is about to make Naruto go through everything that he went by himself. He will understand, that this reality is so cruel because of people that are making it that way (while looking at Madara) and it is also in a hands of people to change things for best (while looking at Naruto). Obito might be changed not just by Naruto alone, but by NaruHina relationships in general and that would be sweet.
That would be really amazing if that happened. And Kakashi already told Obito that Naruto is like him when he was young. Now Obito must realize that he can't deny the love Naruto has found just because he lost Rin. But I'm still careful when it comes to Obito: what will touch his heart and make him change his mind? A NaruHina combo attack?
I was reading through 599 again and this page caught my eye:
http://img.mangastream.to/manga/naruto/599/11.png

On this page you can see, that Rin was not only love interest of Obito, she was something even more important - Rin was a supportive pillar of Obito's dreams (sounds familiar?). And with her death that pillar fell down with everything Obito held on it. So if Obito will see same "supportive pillar" in Hinata for Naruto, there could start some changes inside him or plans for a mental attack.
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:07 am

GreatKungLao wrote:
Spoiler:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:You know, if to think more, it will be that Obito has already gave a lesson to Naruto...

Obito taught Kakashi about "who doesn't care about his comrades is even worse than trash" and exactly same thing Kakashi gave to Naruto as a lesson.

But it would be nice to see some eye-to-eye lesson from Obito to Naruto.
Yes maybe it will happen like that but I'm still a bit afraid that he will try to kill Hinata to make Naruto mad.
Maybe trying to kill Hinata will be something to make him realize everything he have done? Because in a close look Hinata might remind Obito about Rin (which she probably did in 615 already).

You know, like if Obito will try to kill Hinata and he will realize, that he is about to make Naruto go through everything that he went by himself. He will understand, that this reality is so cruel because of people that are making it that way (while looking at Madara) and it is also in a hands of people to change things for best (while looking at Naruto). Obito might be changed not just by Naruto alone, but by NaruHina relationships in general and that would be sweet.
That would be really amazing if that happened. And Kakashi already told Obito that Naruto is like him when he was young. Now Obito must realize that he can't deny the love Naruto has found just because he lost Rin. But I'm still careful when it comes to Obito: what will touch his heart and make him change his mind? A NaruHina combo attack?
I was reading through 599 again and this page caught my eye:
http://img.mangastream.to/manga/naruto/599/11.png

On this page you can see, that Rin was not only love interest of Obito, she was something even more important - Rin was a supportive pillar of Obito's dreams (sounds familiar?). And with her death that pillar fell down with everything Obito held on it. So if Obito will see same "supportive pillar" in Hinata for Naruto, there could start some changes inside him or plans for a mental attack.
Let's see now what can make him change. If NaruHina brings the change, that would be sweet, but I still think Madara will be the reason why Obito might change in the future.

avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Aelita on Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:21 am

My desire for realism says that Obito shouldn't realize his mistakes until maybe his very last breath, since he's been stewing on his delusions for about 14 years of his life--realistically he shouldn't be easy to covert. Like most adults who have held a certain belief for most of their life, he should be set in his ways. (this is why Nagato got so much flak from fandom when he converted to Narutoism so easily after one talk-no-jutsu). It's like trying to get a grown sociopath (which I believe Obito is) to see how self-serving their behavior is, realistically its very unlikely.

However, its likely that Obito will be spiritually or mentally saved by the end of the story, as it would very much fit the themes of the manga. Without a doubt Obito isn't going to live to see the end of the manga. He may redeem himself a little before he dies, but story progression-wise, he's going to die eventually.

As for a lesson, I'd say Naruto has already learned it. And it's also why I think it'd be pointless/dumb story-wise for Kishimoto to have Obito attack Hinata to try to "cripple Naruto's moral". (Aslo why I really doubt that this will happen)

Spoiler:

Naruto has already come to resolve about dealing with the pain of losing those who are close to him. Unlike Obito who rejected the real Rin and refused to deal with the pain of death, Naruto will endure that pain and honor his fallen comrades' memory. He's basically taken the words that Hinata told him in 615, to heart. Since Naruto has already made an unshakable resolve in the face of failing to protect loved ones, I doubt Obito would try to attack his morale again because it'd be pointless.

Obito has already tried the "crippling his moral" tactic on Naruto in chapters 615 and 616 when he berated him for not being able to stop his comrade's deaths after promising to protect everyone. In those chapters he tried to make Naruto see how he felt when he lost Rin (he even had a flashback of Rin while Naruto cradled Neji's corpse in his arms) and how his bond with her cursed him. But as proven with Naruto's ability to find resolve and carry on after Neji's death, that strategy wouldn't work. Because of this I feel like Obito isn't going waste time trying the exact same tactic on Naruto but with a different person when it had already been proven to not work. Hinata on her own, is not exactly a big threat to Obito so he wouldn't specifically target her without a good reason.
avatar
Aelita


Posts : 377
Gender : Female
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by lily567 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:05 am

Aelita wrote:My desire for realism says that Obito shouldn't realize his mistakes until maybe his very last breath, since he's been stewing on his delusions for about 14 years of his life--realistically he shouldn't be easy to covert. Like most adults who have held a certain belief for most of their life, he should be set in his ways. (this is why Nagato got so much flak from fandom when he converted to Narutoism so easily after one talk-no-jutsu). It's like trying to get a grown sociopath (which I believe Obito is) to see how self-serving their behavior is, realistically its very unlikely.

However, its likely that Obito will be spiritually or mentally saved by the end of the story, as it would very much fit the themes of the manga. Without a doubt Obito isn't going to live to see the end of the manga. He may redeem himself a little before he dies, but story progression-wise, he's going to die eventually.

As for a lesson, I'd say Naruto has already learned it. And it's also why I think it'd be pointless/dumb story-wise for Kishimoto to have Obito attack Hinata to try to "cripple Naruto's moral". (Aslo why I really doubt that this will happen)

Spoiler:

Naruto has already come to resolve about dealing with the pain of losing those who are close to him. Unlike Obito who rejected the real Rin and refused to deal with the pain of death, Naruto will endure that pain and honor his fallen comrades' memory. He's basically taken the words that Hinata told him in 615, to heart. Since Naruto has already made an unshakable resolve in the face of failing to protect loved ones, I doubt Obito would try to attack his morale again because it'd be pointless.

Obito has already tried the "crippling his moral" tactic on Naruto in chapters 615 and 616 when he berated him for not being able to stop his comrade's deaths after promising to protect everyone. In those chapters he tried to make Naruto see how he felt when he lost Rin (he even had a flashback of Rin while Naruto cradled Neji's corpse in his arms) and how his bond with her cursed him. But as proven with Naruto's ability to find resolve and carry on after Neji's death, that strategy wouldn't work. Because of this I feel like Obito isn't going waste time trying the exact same tactic on Naruto but with a different person when it had already been proven to not work. Hinata on her own, is not exactly a big threat to Obito so he wouldn't specifically target her without a good reason.
now I have question to ask everyone
you said @aelita
that obito wouldn't attack hinata without a good reason now my question is
what reason would obito have in order for him to attack hinata?

_________________


avatar
lily567


Posts : 1440
Gender : Female
Location : barbados

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:15 am

lily567 wrote:
Spoiler:
Aelita wrote:My desire for realism says that Obito shouldn't realize his mistakes until maybe his very last breath, since he's been stewing on his delusions for about 14 years of his life--realistically he shouldn't be easy to covert. Like most adults who have held a certain belief for most of their life, he should be set in his ways. (this is why Nagato got so much flak from fandom when he converted to Narutoism so easily after one talk-no-jutsu). It's like trying to get a grown sociopath (which I believe Obito is) to see how self-serving their behavior is, realistically its very unlikely.

However, its likely that Obito will be spiritually or mentally saved by the end of the story, as it would very much fit the themes of the manga. Without a doubt Obito isn't going to live to see the end of the manga. He may redeem himself a little before he dies, but story progression-wise, he's going to die eventually.

As for a lesson, I'd say Naruto has already learned it. And it's also why I think it'd be pointless/dumb story-wise for Kishimoto to have Obito attack Hinata to try to "cripple Naruto's moral". (Aslo why I really doubt that this will happen)

Spoiler:

Naruto has already come to resolve about dealing with the pain of losing those who are close to him. Unlike Obito who rejected the real Rin and refused to deal with the pain of death, Naruto will endure that pain and honor his fallen comrades' memory. He's basically taken the words that Hinata told him in 615, to heart. Since Naruto has already made an unshakable resolve in the face of failing to protect loved ones, I doubt Obito would try to attack his morale again because it'd be pointless.

Obito has already tried the "crippling his moral" tactic on Naruto in chapters 615 and 616 when he berated him for not being able to stop his comrade's deaths after promising to protect everyone. In those chapters he tried to make Naruto see how he felt when he lost Rin (he even had a flashback of Rin while Naruto cradled Neji's corpse in his arms) and how his bond with her cursed him. But as proven with Naruto's ability to find resolve and carry on after Neji's death, that strategy wouldn't work. Because of this I feel like Obito isn't going waste time trying the exact same tactic on Naruto but with a different person when it had already been proven to not work. Hinata on her own, is not exactly a big threat to Obito so he wouldn't specifically target her without a good reason.
now I have question to ask everyone
you said @aelita
that obito wouldn't attack hinata without a good reason now my question is
what reason would obito have  in order for him to attack hinata?
That's a good question lily. Sorry to interfere but he could try to attack Hinata thinking that this time, he would definitely break Naruto's spirit. In case that happened, Naruto would react different compare to Neji's death. He could react more violently than he reacted after Obito insulted Minato.
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by lily567 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:27 am

Irielo wrote:
lily567 wrote:
Spoiler:

Aelita wrote:My desire for realism says that Obito shouldn't realize his mistakes until maybe his very last breath, since he's been stewing on his delusions for about 14 years of his life--realistically he shouldn't be easy to covert. Like most adults who have held a certain belief for most of their life, he should be set in his ways. (this is why Nagato got so much flak from fandom when he converted to Narutoism so easily after one talk-no-jutsu). It's like trying to get a grown sociopath (which I believe Obito is) to see how self-serving their behavior is, realistically its very unlikely.

However, its likely that Obito will be spiritually or mentally saved by the end of the story, as it would very much fit the themes of the manga. Without a doubt Obito isn't going to live to see the end of the manga. He may redeem himself a little before he dies, but story progression-wise, he's going to die eventually.

As for a lesson, I'd say Naruto has already learned it. And it's also why I think it'd be pointless/dumb story-wise for Kishimoto to have Obito attack Hinata to try to "cripple Naruto's moral". (Aslo why I really doubt that this will happen)

Spoiler:

Naruto has already come to resolve about dealing with the pain of losing those who are close to him. Unlike Obito who rejected the real Rin and refused to deal with the pain of death, Naruto will endure that pain and honor his fallen comrades' memory. He's basically taken the words that Hinata told him in 615, to heart. Since Naruto has already made an unshakable resolve in the face of failing to protect loved ones, I doubt Obito would try to attack his morale again because it'd be pointless.

Obito has already tried the "crippling his moral" tactic on Naruto in chapters 615 and 616 when he berated him for not being able to stop his comrade's deaths after promising to protect everyone. In those chapters he tried to make Naruto see how he felt when he lost Rin (he even had a flashback of Rin while Naruto cradled Neji's corpse in his arms) and how his bond with her cursed him. But as proven with Naruto's ability to find resolve and carry on after Neji's death, that strategy wouldn't work. Because of this I feel like Obito isn't going waste time trying the exact same tactic on Naruto but with a different person when it had already been proven to not work. Hinata on her own, is not exactly a big threat to Obito so he wouldn't specifically target her without a good reason.
now I have question to ask everyone
you said @aelita
that obito wouldn't attack hinata without a good reason now my question is
what reason would obito have  in order for him to attack hinata?
That's a good question lily. Sorry to interfere but he could try to attack Hinata thinking that this time, he would definitely break Naruto's spirit. In case that happened, Naruto would react different compare to Neji's death. He could react more violently than he reacted after Obito insulted Minato.
why are you apologising , it was a question for everyone to answer

yes I agree that naruto would react differently and more violently than obito's insult to his dad
after all hinata is in naruto's heart

_________________


avatar
lily567


Posts : 1440
Gender : Female
Location : barbados

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:55 am

lily567 wrote:
Irielo wrote:
lily567 wrote:
Spoiler:

Aelita wrote:My desire for realism says that Obito shouldn't realize his mistakes until maybe his very last breath, since he's been stewing on his delusions for about 14 years of his life--realistically he shouldn't be easy to covert. Like most adults who have held a certain belief for most of their life, he should be set in his ways. (this is why Nagato got so much flak from fandom when he converted to Narutoism so easily after one talk-no-jutsu). It's like trying to get a grown sociopath (which I believe Obito is) to see how self-serving their behavior is, realistically its very unlikely.

However, its likely that Obito will be spiritually or mentally saved by the end of the story, as it would very much fit the themes of the manga. Without a doubt Obito isn't going to live to see the end of the manga. He may redeem himself a little before he dies, but story progression-wise, he's going to die eventually.

As for a lesson, I'd say Naruto has already learned it. And it's also why I think it'd be pointless/dumb story-wise for Kishimoto to have Obito attack Hinata to try to "cripple Naruto's moral". (Aslo why I really doubt that this will happen)

Spoiler:

Naruto has already come to resolve about dealing with the pain of losing those who are close to him. Unlike Obito who rejected the real Rin and refused to deal with the pain of death, Naruto will endure that pain and honor his fallen comrades' memory. He's basically taken the words that Hinata told him in 615, to heart. Since Naruto has already made an unshakable resolve in the face of failing to protect loved ones, I doubt Obito would try to attack his morale again because it'd be pointless.

Obito has already tried the "crippling his moral" tactic on Naruto in chapters 615 and 616 when he berated him for not being able to stop his comrade's deaths after promising to protect everyone. In those chapters he tried to make Naruto see how he felt when he lost Rin (he even had a flashback of Rin while Naruto cradled Neji's corpse in his arms) and how his bond with her cursed him. But as proven with Naruto's ability to find resolve and carry on after Neji's death, that strategy wouldn't work. Because of this I feel like Obito isn't going waste time trying the exact same tactic on Naruto but with a different person when it had already been proven to not work. Hinata on her own, is not exactly a big threat to Obito so he wouldn't specifically target her without a good reason.
now I have question to ask everyone
you said @aelita
that obito wouldn't attack hinata without a good reason now my question is
what reason would obito have  in order for him to attack hinata?
That's a good question lily. Sorry to interfere but he could try to attack Hinata thinking that this time, he would definitely break Naruto's spirit. In case that happened, Naruto would react different compare to Neji's death. He could react more violently than he reacted after Obito insulted Minato.
why are you apologising , it was a  question for everyone to answer

yes I agree that naruto would react differently and more violently than obito's insult to his dad
after all hinata is in  naruto's heart
He knows already how important Hinata is in Naruto's life, he knows how she can influence Naruto... and now Naruto has found a way to land blows against him with Sennjutsu. Who tells you that just to break Naruto completely, he won't try something against Hinata? He tried once but Hinata was around, why not a second time?

Moreover, Obito became the way he is now because of love, so in his logic, be it a good logic or not, he could try to finish Naruto just by attacking Hinata. Although it's only a theory, it's still one possibility which can be considered.
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Aelita on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:09 am

See the thing is, what objective Obito would be trying to achieve by attacking/trying to kill Hinata? The suggestion is: killing a loved one would break Naruto's spirit and would get Naruto to give in to him/give up, which would break the heart of the alliance. That's the military strategy behind a tactic like physiological warfare: to get the enemy to break and give in/give up. He already tried that with Neji and it didn't work, Naruto though shaken at first ultimately didn't give in and was able to find resolve in the face of the death of a comrade. So why would he try the exact same thing again? If Obito were to kill Hinata would he really assume that her death would break Naruto enough to want to give up when Neji's couldn't? Or would Obito realize that there would be a similar repeat of events where Naruto is devastated/furious at first but ultimately more or less repeats the resolve he found in 616 and continues to fight in Hinata's honor (thus causing his strategy to fail)? (And if Obito were to attack Hinata for that reason that's what would happen, basically a repeat of the resolve in 614-616 another reason why it wouldn't make sense for Kishi to but it in story-wise)

Hinata's death wouldn't completely break Naruto. It would hurt him dearly and devastate him yes, but as proven with 616 he'd be able to find resolve, honor her memory, continue to fight and carry on. We know this and Obito knows this from watching how Naruto dealt with Neji's death. There's no point in trying to kill one of Naruto's comrades just to break his spirit anymore, it wouldn't work. Logically it'd be a stupid move on Obito's part to try to attack Hinata just for the objective of getting Naruto to give up. He was able to get past Neji's death, what would make him think that Naruto wouldn't be able to get past Hinata's?

Yes Naruto might react differently and more violently towards Hinata's "death" than Neji's. But even if Naruto has feelings for the girl, its not hard to assume he'd still be able to get through the pain of loosing her (causing Obito's tactic to fail) again due to the "we are the ones who endure" resolve in 616. Naruto has come to an unshakable resolve that applies to all his comrades, including Hinata. Naruto has made it clear to everyone that he'll never give in to Obito's delusions even if it means he has to endure the pain of loosing loved ones. The death of his comrades might hurt Naruto, but it won't break him, its because of them that he needs to carry on. It makes more sense for Obito to attack the alliance's military strength (which he has been doing lately) than to continue in psychological warfare.

tldr; Obito "killing" Hinata though hurting Naruto, clearly wouldn't get Naruto to give up, so why bother?

I honestly believe Obito wouldn't specifically attack Hinata unless she became a military threat, she threw herself at him, or if Hinata fell into the crossfire.


Last edited by Aelita on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Aelita


Posts : 377
Gender : Female
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:22 am

Aelita wrote:See the thing is, what objective Obito would be trying to achieve by attacking/trying to kill Hinata? The suggestion is: killing a loved one would break Naruto's spirit and would get Naruto to give in to him/give up, which would break the heart of the alliance. That's the military strategy behind a tactic like physiological warfare: to get the enemy to break and give in/give up. He already tried that with Neji and it didn't work, Naruto though at first shaken ultimately did't give in and was able to find resolve in the face of the death of a comrade. So why would he try the exact same thing again? If Obito were to kill Hinata would he really assume that her death would break Naruto enough to want to give up when Neji's couldn't? Or would Obito realize that there would be a similar repeat of events where Naruto is devastated/furious at first but ultimately more or less repeats the resolve he found in 616 and continues to fight in Hinata's honor (thus causing his strategy to fail)? Hinata's death wouldn't completely break Naruto. It would hurt him dearly and devastate him yes, but as proven with 616 he'd be able to find resolve, honor her memory and carry on. We know this and Obito knows this from watching how Naruto dealt with Neji's death. There's no point on trying to kill one of Naruto's comrades just to break his spirit anymore, it wouldn't work. Logically it'd be a stupid move on Obito's part to try to attack Hinata just to get Naruto to give up because obviously it wouldn't work. He was able to get past Neji's death, what would make him think that Naruto wouldn't be able to get past Hinata's? Yes Naruto might react differently and more violently towards Hinata's "death" than Neji's. But even if Naruto has feelings for the girl, its not hard to assume he'd still be able to get through the pain of loosing her (again causing Obito's tactic to fail) again due to the "we are the ones who endure" resolve in 616. Naruto has come to an unshakable resolve that applies to all his comrades, including Hinata. Naruto has made it clear that he'll never give in to Obito's delusions even if it means he has to endure the pain of loosing loved ones. It makes more sense to attack the alliance's military strength than to continue in psychological warfare.

tldr; Obito "killing" Hinata though hurting Naruto, clearly wouldn't get Naruto to give up, so why bother?

I honestly believe Obito wouldn't specifically attack Hinata unless she became a military threat, she threw herself at him, or if Hinata fell into the crossfire.
It is still a possiblity, it does not mean that he'll automatically attack Hinata. But there is one thing you seem to forget in Naruto's resolve. Without Hinata's speech and support, he would not have made such resolve. In other words, he did not make it on his own but Hinata helped him a lot and Obito witnessed that.

Obito is not someone who thinks always in a logical way like you assume. If love was the reason behind what he has become, love could be the reason he uses to break Naruto completely (because for now, only Naruto is able to compete against him with Sennjutsu) and love could ultimately be the reason for him to get redeemed at the end of the day. Personally, I don't find that farfetched but I admit you have good points too.
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:30 am

Aelita wrote:See the thing is, what objective Obito would be trying to achieve by attacking/trying to kill Hinata? The suggestion is: killing a loved one would break Naruto's spirit and would get Naruto to give in to him/give up, which would break the heart of the alliance. That's the military strategy behind a tactic like physiological warfare: to get the enemy to break and give in/give up. He already tried that with Neji and it didn't work, Naruto though shaken at first ultimately didn't give in and was able to find resolve in the face of the death of a comrade. So why would he try the exact same thing again? If Obito were to kill Hinata would he really assume that her death would break Naruto enough to want to give up when Neji's couldn't? Or would Obito realize that there would be a similar repeat of events where Naruto is devastated/furious at first but ultimately more or less repeats the resolve he found in 616 and continues to fight in Hinata's honor (thus causing his strategy to fail)? (And if Obito were to attack Hinata for that reason that's what would happen, basically a repeat of the resolve in 614-616 another reason why it wouldn't make sense for Kishi to but it in story-wise)

Hinata's death wouldn't completely break Naruto. It would hurt him dearly and devastate him yes, but as proven with 616 he'd be able to find resolve, honor her memory, continue to fight and carry on. We know this and Obito knows this from watching how Naruto dealt with Neji's death. There's no point in trying to kill one of Naruto's comrades just to break his spirit anymore, it wouldn't work. Logically it'd be a stupid move on Obito's part to try to attack Hinata just for the objective of getting Naruto to give up. He was able to get past Neji's death, what would make him think that Naruto wouldn't be able to get past Hinata's?

Yes Naruto might react differently and more violently towards Hinata's "death" than Neji's. But even if Naruto has feelings for the girl, its not hard to assume he'd still be able to get through the pain of loosing her (causing Obito's tactic to fail) again due to the "we are the ones who endure" resolve in 616. Naruto has come to an unshakable resolve that applies to all his comrades, including Hinata. Naruto has made it clear to everyone that he'll never give in to Obito's delusions even if it means he has to endure the pain of loosing loved ones. The death of his comrades might hurt Naruto, but it won't break him, its because of them that he needs to carry on. It makes more sense for Obito to attack the alliance's military strength (which he has been doing lately) than to continue in psychological warfare.

tldr; Obito "killing" Hinata though hurting Naruto, clearly wouldn't get Naruto to give up, so why bother?

I honestly believe Obito wouldn't specifically attack Hinata unless she became a military threat, she threw herself at him, or if Hinata fell into the crossfire.
As Irielo said, Naruto didn't dealt with Neji's death on his own, Hinata did that for him. Imagine that Hinata is a Naruto's bridge, that leads him towards his dreams above the pit of darkness, but what would happen if the bridge will be broken? Hinata was the only one in 615, that didn't lost the spirit and was able to remind about it to Naruto, if Hinata would be hurt, there wouldn't be anyone else to bring Naruto back.
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Aelita on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:51 am

^Obito may be a madman, but when it comes to military strategy he's always been on point. Most mentally unstable villains are like that. It's Obito's social logic that is messed up (thus the socio in sociopath), not his military logic. Most sociopaths are charismatic, manipulative and highly intelligent but are unable to see reason in more social settings, operate without a conscious (or are able to nullify their conscious) and are very self-serving. This is the same man who controlled the Mizukage, manipulated the Akatsuki behind the scenes, was behind the Kyuubi attack, manipulated Sasuke, contributed to the Uchiha massacre because how it benefited his ultimate goal, and started the 4th Shinobi War. He may be unable to see the insanity behind claiming that the real Rin was never supposed to die, but militarily Obito operates very logically. Obito has never attacked or manipulated someone where it didn't help his goals in some way.

It doesn't matter that Hinata helped in making that resolve, the point is the resolve has been made. If Hinata died, while that would devastate Naruto at first, he would still be able to carry on because of that same resolve she helped him make. Obito saw Naruto come to this resolve, he knows that attacking him through his friends wouldn't work as Naruto still wouldn't give in to him. At this point it's better to attack Naruto directly (which he's been doing). There's no point in trying to kill Hinata to break Naruto, it wouldn't work. He'd endure the pain of her death and carry on with her in his heart, just like he said in his resolve in 616. Obito isn't going to waste time on something that has been proven, and that he knows isn't going to work.


Last edited by Aelita on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:58 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Aelita


Posts : 377
Gender : Female
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by lily567 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:56 am

Aelita wrote:^Obito may be a madman, but when it comes to military strategy he's always been on point. Most mentally unstable villains are like that. It's Obito's social logic that is messed up (thus the socio in sociopath), not his military logic. Most sociopaths are charismatic, manipulative and highly intelligent but are unable to see reason in more social settings, operate without a conscious (or are able to nullify their conscious) and are very self-serving. This is the same man who controlled the Mizukage, manipulated the Akatsuki behind the scenes, was behind the Kyuubi attack, manipulated Sasuke, contributed to the Uchiha massacre because how it benefited his ultimate goal, and started the 4th Shinobi War. He may be unable to see the insanity behind claiming that the real Rin was never supposed to die, but militarily Obito operates very logically. Obito has never attacked or manipulated someone where it didn't help his goals in some way.

It doesn't matter that Hinata helped in making that resolve, the point is the resolve has been made. If Hinata died, while that would devastate Naruto at first, he would still be able to carry on because of that same resolve she helped him make. Obito saw Naruto come to this resolve, he knows that attacking him through his friends wouldn't work as Naruto still wouldn't give in to him. At this point it's better to attack Naruto directly (which he's been doing). There's no point in trying to kill Hinata to break Naruto, it wouldn't work. He'd endure the pain of her death and carry on, just like he said in his resolve in 616. Obito isn't going to waste time on something that has been proven, and he knows isn't going to work.
you made an excellent point

_________________


avatar
lily567


Posts : 1440
Gender : Female
Location : barbados

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Irielo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:11 am

lily567 wrote:
Aelita wrote:^Obito may be a madman, but when it comes to military strategy he's always been on point. Most mentally unstable villains are like that. It's Obito's social logic that is messed up (thus the socio in sociopath), not his military logic. Most sociopaths are charismatic, manipulative and highly intelligent but are unable to see reason in more social settings, operate without a conscious (or are able to nullify their conscious) and are very self-serving. This is the same man who controlled the Mizukage, manipulated the Akatsuki behind the scenes, was behind the Kyuubi attack, manipulated Sasuke, contributed to the Uchiha massacre because how it benefited his ultimate goal, and started the 4th Shinobi War. He may be unable to see the insanity behind claiming that the real Rin was never supposed to die, but militarily Obito operates very logically. Obito has never attacked or manipulated someone where it didn't help his goals in some way.

It doesn't matter that Hinata helped in making that resolve, the point is the resolve has been made. If Hinata died, while that would devastate Naruto at first, he would still be able to carry on because of that same resolve she helped him make. Obito saw Naruto come to this resolve, he knows that attacking him through his friends wouldn't work as Naruto still wouldn't give in to him. At this point it's better to attack Naruto directly (which he's been doing). There's no point in trying to kill Hinata to break Naruto, it wouldn't work. He'd endure the pain of her death and carry on, just like he said in his resolve in 616. Obito isn't going to waste time on something that has been proven, and he knows isn't going to work.
you made an excellent point
Like I wrote before, your points are very good but it "has been proven" in Neji's case, now what about Hinata? Maybe I'm a bit subjective about it but I do believe that Hinata has a special place in Naruto's heart, a place that none of his comrades have. The situation is like that right now, thanks to the help of the Edo Tenseis and his Sennjutsu, Naruto is able to fight against Obito. That's why I think it is still a possibility for him to finish Naruto by attacking Hinata if he has the opportunity to do so.

The thing is that Obito knows that Naruto is like him when he was young and it would not be impossible that he uses love to weaken Naruto and this time who will be there to level Naruto's vibes? Minato?

On the other hand, Hinata was already used against Pein and I don't know if Kishi would use her again in this situation. That's why I'm not so sure about it because of the fact she was already used not because of Obito.
avatar
Irielo


Posts : 3348
Gender : Male
Location : Back to normal

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by GreatKungLao on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:10 am

Alright, if not with Hinata, then there should be other possibilities for Obito to redeeme himself and give his last words to Naruto.

I would find it great, if Kakashi will be in a close-death situation because of Madara and Obito saving him with the last strength he would left after battle with Naruto and probably Madara after.

"You was right, Kakashi, all of my dreams and ideals are still living... in Naruto". Naruto looks at Obito and what he have done, while Obito turns his head to Naruto and gives him a smile, that he always have in the past, before dying completele with Madara's hand coming through Obito's chest:

Spoiler:

And that will remind Naruto his own smile, that he was always giving to people around:

Spoiler:

That would be symbolistic about the whole thing, that smile implies in Naruto manga. Smile is what saved them all.

The saddest thing is that Naruto and Obito could become best friends, if things were different, because they shared so much in common...
Spoiler:
avatar
GreatKungLao


Posts : 889
Gender : Male
Location : Russia

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by racefan1992 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:17 am

Hinata can't die, Neji doing what he did prevents something like that from happening. She could hurt but not die. Even if Obito tried something like that, her "dieing" will not be a final result.

Like it's been said before, Obito tried that "psycho" warfare stuff before and it failed hard. Hurting Hinata will only succeed in pissing Naruto off, not breaking him.

Besides like @Irielo said, Hinata had already been used in some degree that what some on this thread are thinking against Pain. Kishi isn't going to do that again (doesn't anyone remember the outrage from her "death"?)

In terms of lesson learned? No lesson deserves to be learned. If i continue, it'll resutl in character bashing, so i will refrine and mute myself.
avatar
racefan1992


Posts : 939
Gender : Male
Location : USA, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Bubbles on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:56 pm

GreatKungLao I think it would be cool if Obito taught Naruto something as well. Perhaps along the lines of love like you said. Also, not sure if anyone posted this already, Now I could be wrong, but I do think that Mizuki is another example of a villain teaching Naruto something. Mizuki taught Naruto to understand others through similar trials.

Spoiler:

Mizuki: "He probably sees himself in you. Try to understand Iruka's feelings. Since you also have no parents."
avatar
Bubbles


Posts : 1104
Gender : Female
Location : Fairy Tail

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Haru Glory on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:25 am

Mizuki was more of a minor nuisance then a real villain imo. I'm not sure what Obito can teach him atm. Probably something along the lines. "Treasure the memories of your loved ones." Though most of Naruto's mentality alone was formed by Obito's direct/indirect meddling.
avatar
Haru Glory


Posts : 103
Gender : Male
Location : Barian World

Back to top Go down

Re: Possibility of the last lesson from Obito to Naruto

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum