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Dr.Zori Rant

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Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Zori on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Today, I am here for the people(NH), by the people(NH), cause I'm all for the people(NH).
I am going to present many questions during this thread, that I would like you to answer. 
This has some Anti-NS but it is mainly NH.

I am Dr.Zori .   Pleased, to meet you. Lets get this started? Shall we?


First let us travel to dinosaur age, well in this case, the beginning of Naruto. Seems, we have come across, something very interesting.... What is this?
Spoiler:

Now if you look closely, not to closely, you might hurt yourself. You can see Naruto in the background, looking at the sun. I did some research of the meaning of the name Hinata.
Origin: Japanese 
Meaning: Sunny place; in the sun
Now what is Naruto doing? Looking at the sun,this could be an foreshadow to NaruHina. Unless he is an weirdo who wants to burn his retina and go blind.
She also has an swirl necklace. It is hard to see so I apologize. Now if you think with an un-biased mind, you would assume that this necklace was an uzumaki clan symbol.
Spoiler:
[b style="color: rgb(153, 51, 51);"]
[/b]
Now I have come up with this small little theory as to how NaruHina will become canon.


Naruto will finally look towards his sun, this sun being Hinata. This looking toward the sun concept, could be acknowledging Hinata, which he already has but how about acknowledge Hinata as a lover?
Therefor he will look towards the sun.

I believe this could be a high possibility in Kishimoto's NaruHina canon confirmation scene.


This also could come into play on SasuSaku, but I will save that for another thread. 


Now I also want to address this whole surpass the generation situation real quick.
Now I personally find this completely bogus, as to this shouldn't even be used as a way to support a pairing.
This is an manga about ninjas, so that statement about surpassing the generations would be the perfect support on something that doesn't have to due with whether Naruto will marry up Sakura-chan or not. But if it is insisted to be used, how about we turn around this whole thing.
How about Sakura surpasses her master and ends up with the guy she has always loved, and not have them die?
How about Naruto surpasses his master and moves the hell on?
How about Sasuke surpasses his master ( Kakashi) and gets with the girl who has always loved him?
Just a second thought. 
 
Glad that is off my chest.
I would also like to bring some parallels in this, just to refute this whole thing about NH not even paralleling MK.
Although, I know NH doesn't need parallels to support it. There is nothing wrong with proving NH can parallel a pairing.
NaruHina=? =MinaKushi
-Both of them were changed by Minato/Naruto. Of course not in a bad way.
-Naruto and Kushina both thought wrong about Minato/Hinata.
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Both of them changed their opinions about the other.


Spoiler:



The manga scans I presented above me, should be enough to support the whole 
changing opinions about the other and being changed

Those two reasons are the ones that parallel each other the most.
-Naruto changed Hinata, Minato changed Kushina
-Naruto thought Hinata was plain looking dark weirdo, Kushina thought Minato was girly flaky boy..
Can you honestly say, Naruto ad Kushina both kept those opinions?
Now to the minor things.
- One is calm and collected , one is short-tempered and loud.
Hinata = ? = Minato , Naruto= ? = Kushina

Naruhina parallels MK, just as much NS "parallels" MK.
Its just BS, to say NH doesn't parallel MK at all. 


So do you agree NH can parallel MK if we wanted to use it as a support?


Well. I am pretty much done for now. I will be back.
Tell me how you think I did? Was I bad? Was I good? 
Where do I need to improve?
Also, I would like you to keep in mind, I do like to make these kind of things fun and serious :P.

Thank you for your attention. 
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by SenpaiSamaSan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:58 pm

Well mixing up two of your points here, Hinata's name can be spelled using the same Kanji as her surname, Hyūga, and as you said they mean "Sunny place" or something similar to that.
Naruto has called both his parents his "suns" in chapter 544, because they believed in him and gave him true strength and the will to keep moving forward. So both his parents and Hinata are "two suns". I don't know if it means anything but, hey, it's there.

MK doesn't exactly parallel NH, maybe a little bit, and I don't use it as an argument but they do share in similar values and motifs. I also like how both Minato and Hinata spoke of all shinobi as being a "family" and under similar circumstances, in 504 and 615 respectively.



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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Zori on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:15 pm

SenpaiSamaSan wrote:Well mixing up both your points here, Hinata's name can be spelled using the same Kanji as her surname, Hyūga, and as you said they mean "Sunny place" or something similar to that.
Naruto has called both his parents his "suns" in chapter 544, because they believed in him and gave him true strength and the will to keep moving forward. So both his parents and Hinata are "two suns". I don't know if it means anything but, hey, it's there.

MK doesn't exactly parallel NH, maybe a little bit, and I don't use it as an argument but they do share in similar values and motifs. I also like how both Minato and Hinata spoke of all shinobi as being a "family" and under similar circumstances, in 504 and 615 respectively.


 Its actually funny you mentioned that because while making this, I was going to include that but I chose not to, for some reason, I just didn't think it was important for my little theory I had going on there, Lol.

I think NH can parallel MK with those 2 big factors for them, seeing that's how "parallels" seem to work in the pairing world.

 I use to want use them just stick it to NS, but others gave me clear reason as why I should not to.
So, I agreed, but in a parallel, argument which seem to be very common with NS. I just would like NS to stop thinking NH doesn't parallel MK at all and NS completely parallels it.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by SenpaiSamaSan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:29 pm

^
I agree that is how "parallel" arguments seem to work, but I don't get how parallels are used as evidence for a pairing, though. In the end they are two completely different relationship with different factors coming into play for both of them, I think most parallels tend to oversimplify the characters and the dynamics of how each character interacts with other people.

Parallels are to be used as points of comparison and contrast as well, otherwise we are just reading copy/paste relationships and I don't find that idea very satisfying.

I think it's okay to find a few similarities here and there though, especially if they tie into an overarching theme or morale presented in the main story plotline.

I don't know if I made sense but that's how I feel about parallels. :P
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Zori on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:41 pm

SenpaiSamaSan wrote:^
I agree that is how "parallel" arguments seem to work, but I don't get how parallels are used as evidence for a pairing, though. In the end they are two completely different relationship with different factors coming into play for both of them, I think most parallels tend to oversimplify the characters and the dynamics of how each character interacts with other people.

Parallels are to be used as points of comparison and contrast as well, otherwise we are just reading copy/paste relationships and I don't find that idea very satisfying.

I think it's okay to find a few similarities here and there though, especially if they tie into an overarching theme or morale presented in the main story plotline.

I don't know if I made sense but that's how I feel about parallels. :P
You made sense, and I can understand your feels about parallels. Lol
Parallels are apparently used, because it's there, which is what I got from asking NS.
Parallels are also taken to the next level as it tends to be used as an "end-game" for a pairing war.
Lmao Copy/paste....
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Irielo on Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:04 pm

Naruto will surpass his master because he will end up with someone he loves and who loves him back: Hinata. He does not need to "move on", from what?, from who?

I'm not a big fan of parallels but I'll take this example of what Naruto thought at the beginning about Hinata, "a dark weirdo" and the same for Kushina towards Minato "girly flaky boy".

Both, Naruto and Kushina based their thoughts on superficial aspects: look etc. Both, Naruto and Kushina are very outgoing and loud. So if Hinata and Minato were behaving the same, they would not have thought about that. But Hinata and Minato are quiet and gentle.

Naruto somehow surpassed his mother because he realized sooner that Hinata was not that weirdo. And he realized that already during her fight against Neji. He saw how "incredible" Hinata was. Then after the "Proud Failure" speech, he was already trusting Hinata in a way that he could tell her what he thought about her before ("dark weirdo"). But this is something which had already changed before the "Proud Failure" speech.

Regarding Kushina, she saw Minato had girly characteristics but actually he was the only one who was able to retrieve her thanks to her hair and to save her after she had been kidnapped. This too gentle Minato showed his capacity and Kushina realized who he was. But it took her more time to realize that about Minato whereas it did not take that long for Naruto to change his mind about Hinata.

There are indeed some similarities in these pairings but both have their own story. And NaruHina does not need any of these parallels to exist.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Mustang on Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:02 pm

I just choose not to use parallels, they are there, but I find that it would be more fun to point out the strengths of one pairing based on its morals.

You know Hinata actually parallels Naruto's parents in a lot of aspects, firstly Minato.

she has proven Naruto wrong, has saved him on many occasions, much like Minato did when Kushina was captured by the cloud-nin. she is cool, calm and collected, much like Minato. they both watched from a distance as the ones they loved tried to prove everyone wrong and gotten into trouble in the meantime. they have proven their love to their respective love interests and last but not least they both changed their opinions of them, Minato changed Kushina's opinion of him, Hinata changed Naruto's opinion of her.

now for Kushina.

Both have saved Naruto, Kushina from Kurama and Hinata from Pain, Obito and even from his self doubts, both were changed by the one they love, Kushina and Hinata have said they love Naruto and meant it as well.

So in reality Hinata actually takes on a lot of Minato's and Kushina's traits, the sacrifice and the love all three have for Naruto, it seems to be in fact that Hinata is definitely Naruto's third sun.

now away from all the parallels, the thing about NaruHina is that it's a pairing that doesn't need parallels, yes they are there.

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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Aelita on Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:27 am

I agree that I like the similarities between Minakushi and Naruhina (Kushina originally brushing off Minato like Naruto originally brushed of Hinata as weird. The irony of Kushina saying "not to choose a weird one, but a girl like me" with Hinata being the only girl Naruto has labeled as weird while having some of the honorable characteristics that Kushina had), however I don't like to use MinaKushi to argue as "proof" for Naruhina. Just because Kushina fell in love with Minato doesn't mean that Naruto will fall for Hinata, he'll have to do that on his own. I actually really hate when either side, whether it be NS or NH, tries to use MinaKushi to "strengthen their ship".

Ain't nobody wanna appreciate Minakushi for Minakushi anymore.

It's all about "Minakushi parallels Naruhina/Narusaku! Proof that Naruhina/Narusaku will happen!". Everybody seems to be using Minakushi really as a way to make their own ship seem more valid. Its kinda ruined Minakushi for me. You can't even go in the Minakushi tag on tumblr without seeing a NH vs NS ship war. I seriously long for the days when Kushina was nothing but a flashback in Jiraiya's head. Can we go back to the days when we all focused on the relationship between Minato and Kushina instead of using them to debate about external ships?


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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Irielo on Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:48 am

^I thought SenpaiSamaSan, 51-mustang and myself did see some similarities between the 2 pairings but did not give that much importance to parallels.

Good to know that there is a war about parallels between NH and NS. I'm glad not to participate to these pathetic wars. I like NaruHina for what it is and for what it represents.

Regarding MinaKushi, they might have been cute together but their story is no more as themselves.

To base NaruHina on a has been pairing does not honor NaruHina and I feel while reading the manga, that Naruto is already in love with Hinata. He just needs his time to express it clearly.

I appreciate NaruHina for NaruHina. As far as MinaKushi is concerned, I don't really care because they belong to the past. It's time for the new generation to shine now, thus: NaruHina.

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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Aelita on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:10 am

^I wasn't talking about anyone specifically. I myself said I noticed and liked the similarities between the two ships, but I don't like to use Minakushi to argue for Naruhina. Because as you said, Naruhina can stand on its own. I see these nice similarities between the two ships for what they are, nice similarities, not definite proof that Naruhina will happen. Similarities between Minakushi won't make Naruhina happen, only the interaction between Naruto and Hinata will. So basically I pretty much agree with what you SenpaiSamaSan and 51-mustang have said.

The only thing I was commenting on was NS/NH fans who use Minakushi really just to validate their ship--which I dislike.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Irielo on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:17 am

Aelita wrote:^I wasn't talking about anyone specifically. I myself said I noticed and liked the similarities between the two ships, but I don't like to use Minakushi to argue for Naruhina. Because as you said, Naruhina can stand on its own. I see these nice similarities between the two ships for what they are, nice similarities, not definite proof that Naruhina will happen. Similarities between Minakushi won't make Naruhina happen, only the interaction between Naruto and Hinata will. So basically I pretty much agree with what you SenpaiSamaSan and 51-mustang have said.

The only thing I was commenting on was NS/NH fans who use Minakushi really just to validate their ship--which I dislike.

Thanks! Sorry Aelita that you always have to justify what you wrote because I might have not understood it that way, now it's clearer to me.
That's a habit that NS like to use parallels to support its pairing. I was not expecting NH to do the same. Has NH come that low? I hope not.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by racefan1992 on Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:04 am

Each pairing parlells itself on to one another, which is fine. However, each character parlell each other (which i think is slightly more important.)

I you want to parlell characters that is fine, Kishimoto does a good job of that (lets face it, he does do it alot). Parlelling pairings is another matter.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Zori on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:55 am

Lol. Everyone seems to be caught on the parallel part.
Don't get me wrong guys, I don't think NH should use parallels, but I also find nothing wrong with showing the similarities between MK and NH. 
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Aelita on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:12 pm

^So you're basically saying we shouldn't use the similarities with Minakushi to debate for Naruhina..... but we should use the similarities with Minakushi to debate for Naruhina? (We shouldn't use parallels as proof for Naruhina, but we should show non-believers these same parallels as proof for naruhina, lol see the contradiction here?)

It's not that we don't see or appreciate these similarities, but debating wise, I wouldn't use these similarities to try to convince a non-NH believer that Naruhina is going to happen. It's the "using it as support" part of the rant that I'm disagreeing with. Maybe as an counter argument to the "NS parallels Minakushi" argument, both ships have their similarities to Minakushi, but other than that similarities to external ships isn't much of an argument on its own to use as evidence or "support" for a ship.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Zori on Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:18 pm

Aelita wrote:^So you're basically saying we shouldn't use the similarities with Minakushi to debate for Naruhina..... but we should use the similarities with Minakushi to debate for Naruhina? (We shouldn't use parallels as proof for Naruhina, but we should show non-believers these same parallels as proof for naruhina, lol see the contradiction here?)

It's not that we don't see or appreciate these similarities, but debating wise, I wouldn't use these similarities to try to convince a non-NH believer that Naruhina is going to happen. It's the "using it as support" part of the rant that I'm disagreeing with. Maybe as an counter argument to the "NS parallels Minakushi" argument, both ships have their similarities to Minakushi, but other than that similarities to external ships isn't much of an argument on its own to use as evidence or "support" for a ship.

 No that's not what I'm saying. Your getting me wrong. I'm saying , we shouldn't use them in debates when it comes to NS vs NH or NH vs etc. I'm not saying to use them as a support to prove why NH is right or will become canon.

I just said, I find nothing wrong with showing similarities with MK. 
I wasn't implying to use them in debates for NH.
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Re: Dr.Zori Rant

Post by Mustang on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:04 pm

Alright let's have the ace get the ball rolling, Why NH will become canon, I think we have really pointed this out in other threads, the fact that a lot of this started in part one with the 'Proud Failure moment' then we see things really kicking up a notch with Hinata's confession, everything from there we see Naruto starting to show signs of falling in love with Hinata, the it's in your eyes moment which showed that he understands Hinata while Hinata understands him, then the amazing hand holding moment, here we see Naruto starting to accept Hinata's love for him, then lastly in chapter 633 we see that hand squeeze and soft smile, this is something he hasn't done for Sakura even though at one stage he had a crush on her.

as to why NS will not occur, there is three reasons.

1. Naruto, he has moved on and has started to fall in love with Hinata, who has supported him and picked him up when he was down. Naruto has moved on from Sakura as of chapter 469 and we see that resolve 5 chapters later.
2. Sakura, no matter what Naruto has done to make her happy, to be there for her, all she can do is lie to herself and to Naruto, in other words she is still in love with Sasuke.
3. Sasuke, the third cog of the pairing, no pairing in any fiction has lasted or has built up when there is a third wheel, unless that person dies, Sakura remains in love with Sasuke no matter what kind of shit he has been up to, the darkness that engulfed him causing him to be an international criminal, yet she still remains in love with him.

the reasons as to why NS will not happen is the characters and how they have developed, plus I doubt Sakura will move on from her love for Sasuke.

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