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my sasusaku rant

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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Irielo on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:40 pm

@ Aelita I understand what you mean and even agree a lot with it but if I understood Yamasaki right, the fact is that NaruHina has its own story and SasuSaku has its own.

That's also related to the characters' personalities and their way of doing things. Maybe, there are too much expectations about Sasuke's feelings, but Sasuke is someone who does not show or does not want to show them.

What I can say is just, let's wait and see how things are going to happen. If there's any Team 7 issue again, for instance, Sasuke trying to kill Naruto (I don't want it to happen), if Sakura really loves Sasuke, she must intervene. She could not stop him the first time and that would be a personal victory if she could do it in this case.

If Sakura really counts for Sasuke, this time he should listen to her. That would show by the way a character's development from him. Sasuke was always obsessed with the past and he made decisions according to it. That would be the time to show that he can listen to the present and become more flexible.

So the development's nature of NaruHina and SasuSaku are different as well: NaruHina expresses a mutual support and understanding, SasuSaku might express this aspect: "for the best (Part 1 until Sasuke left) and for the worst (most of part 2)". Sasuke went through so much pain in his life, he decided to suppress his feelings etc., and Sakura could be the one who would bring happiness into his life. But for that, Sasuke still has to open his heart.

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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Aelita on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:35 pm

I know Sasuke isn't the type to wear his feelings on his sleeve. But I'm just saying his bond with Sakura could have been touched on during his absence like his bond with Naruto was. Whenever Naruto's name was brought up, Sasuke would react in a way that made it seem like he was covering up any lingering importance he held for Naruto with apathy. Something like that, even if it was small, could have worked in Sasusaku's favor, to show the readers that Sakura (as an individual) still holds importance deep in Sasuke's heart.

Sakura's fake smile basically foreshadow's something bad's on the horizon for team 7. I just hope Sakura can have her happy ending with team 7.
Sasuke may begin to accept and reciprocate Sakura's feelings in the end, but like SenpaiSamaSan said, it'd probably be through some vague hint (which would fit Sasuke's personality) towards the end of the manga, or in an epilogue.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Irielo on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:40 pm

Aelita wrote:I know Sasuke isn't the type to wear his feelings on his sleeve. But I'm just saying his bond with Sakura could have been touched on during his absence like his bond with Naruto was. Whenever Naruto's name was brought up, Sasuke would react in a way that made it seem like he was covering up any lingering importance he held for Naruto with apathy. Something like that, even if it was small, could have worked in Sasusaku's favor, to show the readers that Sakura (as an individual) still holds importance deep in Sasuke's heart.

Sakura's fake smile basically foreshadow's something bad's on the horizon for team 7. I just hope Sakura can have her happy ending with team 7.
Sasuke may begin to accept and reciprocate Sakura's feelings in the end, but like SenpaiSamaSan said, it'd probably be through some vague hint (which would fit Sasuke's personality) towards the end of the manga, or in an epilogue.

The same for me. I'd really like to see Sakura happy. Not only Sakura as happiness provider but that she receives happiness as well.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:19 am

Aelita wrote:But Yamasaki the thing is, when the "no development from Naruto's end in a very long time" argument was made pre-Pein Arc, it was a valid argument.

No, it wasn't a valid argument then. In fact, it was never a valid argument. If you think it was, then your opinion at least can be considered consistent (unlike some others which is why I mentioned it as I know some NaruHina fans that will think an argument is valid against a different pairing but it's not against NaruHina) and I'll part company with you. I can ship anything I want regardless of evidence (that's what fanon exists for), but I never ship for canon without obvious evidence. In my opinion, anyone who ever felt that was a valid argument was ignoring the story completely.

Aelita wrote:The same argument has been used against NS. Remember the arguments that pointed out how Narusaku's development had become stagnant after Sakura's false confession? There were even people counting down the chapters since the last meaningful NS interaction-- the false confession (which had ended very negatively for NS).

The chapter counting was always a stupid argument. There are plenty of story development reasons why NaruSaku doesn't work. The "chapter counting" nonsense (among other stupid things such as how long Naruto went without saying Sakura's name) is not one of them. The "NaruSaku is stagnant from chapter 469" argument is silly because NaruSaku was stagnant as of chapter 183 not chapter 469. If I get in the mood to truly debate the point, I can get into all the where's/why's if you want.

Aelita wrote:SasuSaku cannot work without Sasuke. Sakura can love Sasuke till the end of time, Sasusaku would still need him to show signs that he's reciprocating her feelings to happen.

Needing Sasuke is obvious. What is ignored is that we got that "sign" back in chapter 181. We're just waiting on the silly "darkness" issue to play itself out and then we'll pick up on it.

The rest of your arguments basically just re-iterates why SasuSaku--just like NaruHina--is not official yet. Just as Sasuke only said "thank you," Naruto has only smiled/held hands. Neither has actually shown on panel a blatant romantic interest in Sakura (for Sasuke) or Hinata (for Naruto) yet. You cannot say that holding hands while thanking someone who loves them is showing romantic interest (in the middle of a fight) & then argue that someone thanking someone who loves them (while knowing that they are leaving that person behind) is not showing romantic interest and expect me to take you seriously as a story analyst. You can choose to take one to be "more romantic" than the other or even like one while hating the other (or you could hate both), but that's personal preference and not following story developments.

Yes a smirk does matter because it showed that despite the silly "hundreds of chapters arguments" (seriously, how many times does Kishimoto have to blow a hole in all the "[insert number of chapters here] arguments" whether it deals with pairings or techniques or whatever before people understand that it's ALWAYS a dumb argument) that Team 7 matters to Sasuke and his bonds are still there just as they were when he tried to "sever them" no matter how much Sasuke has ever claimed otherwise. Oh, and if the bonds are still there just as they were when he tried to "sever them," guess where that puts SasuSaku? It puts it right back where it was in chapter 181 with Sasuke giving an answer that's equivalent to "maybe but definitely not now" considering the situation at the time.

The rest of your "arguments" make no sense at all, such as the "only Naruto was slashed." Are you seriously not understanding why that happened and how that had nothing to do with pairings at all? Oh and don't say that "some people said so" because just because a fan who likes what I do said something doesn't mean that I agree with it. Goodness knows how many times I argue with people in fandoms I participate in because I don't think their arguments make sense and we're supposed to be "on the same side." The other one is the "they've been shipped together because of NaruSaku." Umm, no. I started shipping SasuSaku because of the way Sasuke responded to Sakura and especially once Sakura cut her hair to become a serious ninja. I started shipping SasuSaku because Sakura kept changing to become a better person and showed me that she would never be a "yes-man" type of woman with him AND Sasuke always spoke to her and let her in to an extent. I started shipping NaruHina because of the way Naruto responded to Hinata and especially once I knew that Hinata understood Naruto & wasn't anything like a fangirl. I ship both SasuSaku and NaruHina because right from the beginning of the series it was obvious that Sasuke had a soft spot of Sakura and obvious that Naruto had a soft spot for Hinata. If the boys of the respective pairings did not act the way they did with the girls, I would not ship either SasuSaku or NaruHina. You will find that most people who ship both SasuSaku and NaruHina can find numerous similarities between the two pairings (and there are tons, including supporting the whole "opposites attact" meme). NaruSaku has nothing to do with my shipping preferences at all. I was shipping SasuSaku long before I was interested in NaruHina.

Basically, at the end of the day, don't stereotype which is what pretty much all of your arguments boiled down to being, especially thinking that I thought that it was ever a valid argument to use chapter counting or that there was "no development" just because you clearly do (or did) after I just said it's not ever a valid argument. It's annoying as I speak for myself and not others.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Aelita on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:50 am

I probably wouldn't have admitted it back then, but it was a valid point. Remember, this was back before Hinata's confession. All we had had was that scene where Hinata fainted upon seeing Naruto again, and it was for laughs--not exactly the best romantic development. No one knew what Kishimoto intended to do with the ship. What if Kishimoto had Hinata's feelings fizzle out like he had Lee's? Remember back then (while NH fans believed that she was in love with Naruto) technically Hinata had only said she admired him. Even if Sakura's love for Sasuke prevented Narusaku from happening (which would automatically kill NH) that alone didn't mean Naruto would necessarily fall for Hinata. What if Kishi had Naruto forever view Hinata as a valuable hardworking comrade that he personally related to like he did Rock Lee? At that point Naruhina was just about entirely based on old events in part I, a funny feeling that many NH fans had and the hope that Kishi would one day give the ship (which to its fans had lots of potential) development. And after the Itachi revival arc where Naruto and Hinata were on the same team but nothing happened, the future didn't seem too bright.

I meant "shipped together because they're have a common enemy" because NH and SS are often seen as complementary ships. Obviously someone can like both Sasusaku for Sasusaku and Naruhina for Naruhina but the reason those two ships are called "sister ships" is that it was a clean tidy way that made sure everyone in the prominent romantic subplot ended up with someone. They don't contradict one another and even take care of the "threats" in the Hinata-Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke love square. For a long time, Naruhina was considered a side ship for Sasusaku. Back in the days where Sasusaku and seemed like the strongest developed pairing and Naruhina not so much. It was viewed as a tidy way of making sure the main character "didn't get left out" while making room for Sasusaku by neutrals. While there are a lot of fans who genuinely like both SS and NH, side-shipping is a factor to the popularity behind the SS-NH double ship. For example: the NH fans who hate/dislike Sakura yet pair her off with Sasuke. I'm not talking about you specifically. I don't think that the end games of SS and NH are interdependent. Sure there may be some similarities between the ships (as well as many differences), but I don't see how Naruto falling in love with Hinata would make Sasuke fall in love with Sakura. NH becoming canon wouldn't be able to make that happen, only Sasuke could.

And all I'm asking for is some positive development from Sasuke's end for Sasusaku. You still didn't answer my question: Why wait to till the end of the story to start developing it since part one? Story wise and writing wise adding new development is important. Your readers need reminders, especially in such a long story like Naruto. Readers need to be reminded that Sasuke views/viewed Sakura (not just as a former member of team seven) as an individual he held special interest in. Without that, I can easily assume that Sakura was precious to Sasuke as a team member of team 7, but he is currently actively trying to bury those feelings. Since romance is a subplot, there doesn't need to be tons of reminders, but still there needs to be new development once in a while. Was one scene where someone mentions Tsunade's apprentice Sakura Haruno and Sasuke seems a little disgruntled by it (similarly to how he's acted when Naruto's name was mentioned) so much to ask for? A small mention of their past bond? If Sasuke were to suddenly declare his love for Sakura or make a sudden romantic advance, it would seem strange and rushed because it doesn't have the proper build up. This becomes even more problematic because we're nearing the end of the story. Development from Sasuke's side may re-start in the future (although it seems like Sasuke's plans are going to stir up some drama), but right now Sasusaku is based on hopes for the future, rather than the evidence right here in front of us. And because of that I can not vouch for its future canonship.

I never claimed the development from Naruto's end to be all romantic, but at least it was positive. His reaction to her "death", His crying over her after realizing that she was alright, his admittance that her death caused the 6-tail transformation, him lifting her spirits and telling her that she's strong, him remembering her assist from the Pein fight, him thanking her and holding her hand. There have been more reminders that Hinata holds importance to Naruto, and they happen more often. From Sasuke have the "thank you" where whether or not the intention romantic was ambiguous, him claiming to have severed his bonds from everyone, him attacking team 7 after reuniting for the first time in 3 years, him thinking of team 7 as team Taka helps him, him attacking Sakura, and him smirking impressed with her progress. From that I can fairly assume that while Sasuke thought of Sakura as a precious comrade that was part of his team 7 family, it's also probable that he didn't/doesn't have any special interest in her beyond that (though he may have thought about it once or twice, it never went beyond that). The smirk may have caused me to raise an eyebrow, but that on its own isn't going to be enough. For Sasusaku to happen within the span of the manga we're going to need to see Sasuke fall in love with Sakura which doesn't seem to be happening. Could it be that romance takes a far far backseat for Sasuke? Probably, but we're still going to need to see it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ship SS, if you love SS and hope for it to become canon, then ship it, and ship it hard. I myself shipped NH for a long time with out the solid evidence, but on a gut feeling. While I may not ship SS, I do not hate it either (I even defended it a few times if you scroll through the thread) and I try to act neutrally towards it. I'm just debating and critiquing the writing behind, and future of Sasusaku which I could see going one of four ways based on what we have right now: Sasuke's redeemed and there's a subtle vague hint that he's beginning to return Sakura's feelings (its left largely to the reader's imaginations), Sasuke's redeemed and sasusaku happens in an epilogue, Sasuke's redeemed but doesn't end up with anyone, or Sasuke dies. And right now I'm leaning towards choices A and C.


Last edited by Aelita on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Irielo on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:56 pm

@ Aelita Sometimes one tends to forget that it is a shonen manga. So tones of romantic developments are not to be expected.

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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Bubbles on Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:28 pm

This is how I feel, I guess a bit of my interpretation of SS/NH.

I really don't think that it matters much how many chapters it's been since 181. For NH, yes, Naruto has begun sending more concrete signals, but at the same time, these signals have really only just  begun occurring. Naruto didn't show any signs of even answering Hinata's confession until 120+ chapters later when everyone was saying Naruto was ignoring her confession, and 615 didn't happen until another 50+ or so chapters. So is there a chapter limit on how many chapters need to go by before we need proof that they still care or care at all? If so, who decides the limit?

I thought Bee fight made it pretty evident that Sasuke still thinks of his whole team. (the picture according to databook represents more than just a photo of them. It was regarded as being special  to Sasuke. It's a representation of what he'd left behind as well as what gives him true strength. They represent friendship, love.) The bond is still there, which means the bonds they made are still present, no matter how many chapters it's been because Sasuke hasn't broken these bonds.

The development doesn't go away unless Sasuke actually breaks his bonds and shows us he really doesn't give a hoot all around. If bonds don't go away with time, enduring a hell of a lot of pain, and transcends death, what would 2.5 years of distance change? Especially since the first reunion and Bee fight (around the 400's showed he still thought about his teammates.) Sasuke going mental at Kage Summit doesn't mean his bonds are broken either, especially after everything that's happened since then.

Perhaps Kishi didn't show Sasuke thinking of Sakura individually because it would have been a bit of a giveaway. Kishi has kept Sasuke's true feelings for Sakura hidden. We know she was once precious to him and that she filled his lonely existence with love, and that she was a comrade. Naruto was also precious, was also a comrade, and was his best friend.I'm sure Kakashi was special to him too, a comrade and a sensei. What was Sakura? Just a special person and comrade? Or something else Kishi is hiding? Sasuke also needs to answer his final question. Who am I? This is most likely going to be intertwined with his redemption.

All we need is definite evidence that Sasuke could very well be interested in her and it's set.

With 437: We knew he [Naruto] cared for her [Hinata] because she's his friend and comrade, she just confessed her love for him while risking her life, then was severely hurt by the enemy in front of him. Uh, yeah he went 6 tails.)

Sakura is still in love with him [Sasuke] after all this time and Sasuke just got there and is finally on their side for once and already we have Sasuke smirking at her power, instead of the usual monkey faced/scared look Kakashi and Naruto gave when first witnessing her strength. Not to mention this is the first time Sasuke has seen anything from her.) To me, this smirk is more than just some little thing. (Like, Kishi could have just shown him commenting like Shizune without a smile, just a matter of fact, or perhaps a bit of surprise. Instead, we get a sexy smirk from him.)

It's not huge, but it tells me something: Sasuke was not shocked by Sakura's strength, while her other teammates were. I think this is quite telling. To me, this shows Sasuke already believed in her ability, which is why he'd kept telling her to keep training instead of fooling around, yet at the same time genuinely praised her skill. I understand by wanting more concrete evidence, but again Sasuke has really only just assembled with them and they haven't had the time yet. It's all a matter of when, not if imo.

I think that SS had a huge chunk of it's development in Part I (Sakura going from fangirl to genuinely wanting the best for Sasuke and growing stronger for her friends, Sasuke going from distant and cold, to someone who would die for her and Naruto, who would place her in high enough regard that he'd say "even  you, when referring to her. These are subtleties I feel Kishi placed intentionally. Because this is Sasuke. He's not going to be so open about this, when he wasn't even trying to be too open in general. It's the way he words things, the expressions on his face (or lack thereof when Kishi hides his expressions) and the responses of others when noting these that should be looked at. Kishi drops subtle hints with SS such as the Hospital Scene, hiding most of Sasuke's reactions throughout 181, the less subtle fact that Sakura was able to get Sasuke to reverse his CS, which  (to me at least) seemed to suggest she'd had a degree of influence over his mental state, etc.)

Meanwhile, NH had little development in Part I aside from Naruto changing his original opinion of her, and Hinata growing a bit more confident. That's why it was more necessary for Part II development on NH part. That, and the fact that NH had Naruto's feelings for Sakura that needed addressing as well (even if it wasn't love). SS however, had the majority of it's development in Part I already. The only thing I feel that stopped SS was Sasuke's revenge, which really has nothing to do with SS pairing since Sakura is not intertwined with his revenge. Naruto and Kakashi are more so than she, as one is his rival to compete with and the other his sensei who he originally learned from to become stronger. Sakura could offer him nothing (except her help) in his revenge, but even then she wasn't a part of it. With Sasuke, his love life and goals are separate things that are being addressed separately. Right now, his ideas for the future need to be addressed, with the whole Bijuu thing. This links with his goals.

Though perhaps Kishi will have Sakura finally be intertwined with helping change him. We all know Naruto is going to be a big role, and I hope Sakura plays the role in his mental recovery, healing his heart and brightening both their futures.

I think that NH is also more intertwined with the plot as well as having links to the titular characters development. (98, which built Naruto's confidence leading him to defeat Neji, 437 Naruto turns 6 tails leading him to meeting his dad, leading him to controlling Kyuubi, 615 Hinata lifts Naruto out of despair, etc.)

In SS's case, Sasuke's story was something Sasuke had to do and figure out by himself, while NH is more directly intertwined with the involved characters individual developments.

With Sakura, Sasuke couldn't let her in with nothing falling into place for him when it came to his goals at the time. He left because of this, and came to believe bonds were a curse, and you know the story. Anyhow, he's back now and Kishi is being ambiguous with him again, yet he's smiling with Naruto and it's all very confusing and intriguing to me.

It's just a matter of when Kishi is going to reveal his plans with Sasuke and hopefully something positive will come of it.

All this being said, I'm not saying SS (should it happen) will have Sasuke suddenly being all in love with Sakura. I think that's too much to ask. But at the same time, Kishi might very well have some flashbacks or things from Sasuke's side in store, you never know. He does like to interrupt big battles with flashbacks and backstories. And since I'm one of the SS fans who is hoping for a 181 callback (much like NH waited for 437 reply), hopefully via Sasuke's side. It's like Tobirama said, the Uchiha value love and friendship the most, and they are also the ones who tend to hide their more affectionate traits, but hopefully this won't stay the case with Sasuke for much longer.

NH has been getting spoiled with development even during the war arc, so I'm hoping Kishi does deliver some SS as well, more from Sasuke's side. But overall, SS I feel just needs Sasuke's side, like NH still needs concrete Naruto's side. Kishi likely kept SS toward the end because Sasuke wasn't coming back until then. There would be no room for SS to develop without Sasuke first returning and  then setting up moments between them. Besides, we don't know when Kishi is ending his manga. For all we know, there couple be a couple more arcs. It's almost nearing the end of the year and Kishi still needs to address many things, including final NaruSasu fight, Orochimaru, Obito, Madara, (if he doesn't want rage, the Hyuga etc) so  "developing when it's about to end" might not necessarily be the case. Again, Sasuke just got there during a pretty crucial moment and it's been hard work ever since, hardly the time to be anything remotely romantic, especially since he doesn't even know Sakura still loves him. So first, we'll need Sasuke to be aware of her remaining feelings, like Naruto was aware of Hinata's love. Then we'll see.

I do believe in SS, and I'll ship it even if it goes down, but I have faith Kishi will deliver.

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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Irielo on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:00 pm

Bubbles wrote:
Spoiler:
This is how I feel, I guess a bit of my interpretation of SS/NH.

I really don't think that it matters much how many chapters it's been since 181. For NH, yes, Naruto has begun sending more concrete signals, but at the same time, these signals have really only just  begun occurring. Naruto didn't show any signs of even answering Hinata's confession until 120+ chapters later when everyone was saying Naruto was ignoring her confession, and 615 didn't happen until another 50+ or so chapters. So is there a chapter limit on how many chapters need to go by before we need proof that they still care or care at all? If so, who decides the limit?

I thought Bee fight made it pretty evident that Sasuke still thinks of his whole team. (the picture according to databook represents more than just a photo of them. It was regarded as being special  to Sasuke. It's a representation of what he'd left behind as well as what gives him true strength. They represent friendship, love.) The bond is still there, which means the bonds they made are still present, no matter how many chapters it's been because Sasuke hasn't broken these bonds.

The development doesn't go away unless Sasuke actually breaks his bonds and shows us he really doesn't give a hoot all around. If bonds don't go away with time, enduring a hell of a lot of pain, and transcends death, what would 2.5 years of distance change? Especially since the first reunion and Bee fight (around the 400's showed he still thought about his teammates.) Sasuke going mental at Kage Summit doesn't mean his bonds are broken either, especially after everything that's happened since then.

Perhaps Kishi didn't show Sasuke thinking of Sakura individually because it would have been a bit of a giveaway. Kishi has kept Sasuke's true feelings for Sakura hidden. We know she was once precious to him and that she filled his lonely existence with love, and that she was a comrade. Naruto was also precious, was also a comrade, and was his best friend.I'm sure Kakashi was special to him too, a comrade and a sensei. What was Sakura? Just a special person and comrade? Or something else Kishi is hiding? Sasuke also needs to answer his final question. Who am I? This is most likely going to be intertwined with his redemption.

All we need is definite evidence that Sasuke could very well be interested in her and it's set.

With 437: We knew he [Naruto] cared for her [Hinata] because she's his friend and comrade, she just confessed her love for him while risking her life, then was severely hurt by the enemy in front of him. Uh, yeah he went 6 tails.)

Sakura is still in love with him [Sasuke] after all this time and Sasuke just got there and is finally on their side for once and already we have Sasuke smirking at her power, instead of the usual monkey faced/scared look Kakashi and Naruto gave when first witnessing her strength. Not to mention this is the first time Sasuke has seen anything from her.) To me, this smirk is more than just some little thing. (Like, Kishi could have just shown him commenting like Shizune without a smile, just a matter of fact, or perhaps a bit of surprise. Instead, we get a sexy smirk from him.)

It's not huge, but it tells me something: Sasuke was not shocked by Sakura's strength, while her other teammates were. I think this is quite telling. To me, this shows Sasuke already believed in her ability, which is why he'd kept telling her to keep training instead of fooling around, yet at the same time genuinely praised her skill. I understand by wanting more concrete evidence, but again Sasuke has really only just assembled with them and they haven't had the time yet. It's all a matter of when, not if imo.

I think that SS had a huge chunk of it's development in Part I (Sakura going from fangirl to genuinely wanting the best for Sasuke and growing stronger for her friends, Sasuke going from distant and cold, to someone who would die for her and Naruto, who would place her in high enough regard that he'd say "even  you, when referring to her. These are subtleties I feel Kishi placed intentionally. Because this is Sasuke. He's not going to be so open about this, when he wasn't even trying to be too open in general. It's the way he words things, the expressions on his face (or lack thereof when Kishi hides his expressions) and the responses of others when noting these that should be looked at. Kishi drops subtle hints with SS such as the Hospital Scene, hiding most of Sasuke's reactions throughout 181, the less subtle fact that Sakura was able to get Sasuke to reverse his CS, which  (to me at least) seemed to suggest she'd had a degree of influence over his mental state, etc.)

Meanwhile, NH had little development in Part I aside from Naruto changing his original opinion of her, and Hinata growing a bit more confident. That's why it was more necessary for Part II development on NH part. That, and the fact that NH had Naruto's feelings for Sakura that needed addressing as well (even if it wasn't love). SS however, had the majority of it's development in Part I already. The only thing I feel that stopped SS was Sasuke's revenge, which really has nothing to do with SS pairing since Sakura is not intertwined with his revenge. Naruto and Kakashi are more so than she, as one is his rival to compete with and the other his sensei who he originally learned from to become stronger. Sakura could offer him nothing (except her help) in his revenge, but even then she wasn't a part of it. With Sasuke, his love life and goals are separate things that are being addressed separately. Right now, his ideas for the future need to be addressed, with the whole Bijuu thing. This links with his goals.

Though perhaps Kishi will have Sakura finally be intertwined with helping change him. We all know Naruto is going to be a big role, and I hope Sakura plays the role in his mental recovery, healing his heart and brightening both their futures.

I think that NH is also more intertwined with the plot as well as having links to the titular characters development. (98, which built Naruto's confidence leading him to defeat Neji, 437 Naruto turns 6 tails leading him to meeting his dad, leading him to controlling Kyuubi, 615 Hinata lifts Naruto out of despair, etc.)

In SS's case, Sasuke's story was something Sasuke had to do and figure out by himself, while NH is more directly intertwined with the involved characters individual developments.

With Sakura, Sasuke couldn't let her in with nothing falling into place for him when it came to his goals at the time. He left because of this, and came to believe bonds were a curse, and you know the story. Anyhow, he's back now and Kishi is being ambiguous with him again, yet he's smiling with Naruto and it's all very confusing and intriguing to me.

It's just a matter of when Kishi is going to reveal his plans with Sasuke and hopefully something positive will come of it.

All this being said, I'm not saying SS (should it happen) will have Sasuke suddenly being all in love with Sakura. I think that's too much to ask. But at the same time, Kishi might very well have some flashbacks or things from Sasuke's side in store, you never know. He does like to interrupt big battles with flashbacks and backstories. And since I'm one of the SS fans who is hoping for a 181 callback (much like NH waited for 437 reply), hopefully via Sasuke's side. It's like Tobirama said, the Uchiha value love and friendship the most, and they are also the ones who tend to hide their more affectionate traits, but hopefully this won't stay the case with Sasuke for much longer.

NH has been getting spoiled with development even during the war arc, so I'm hoping Kishi does deliver some SS as well, more from Sasuke's side. But overall, SS I feel just needs Sasuke's side, like NH still needs concrete Naruto's side. Kishi likely kept SS toward the end because Sasuke wasn't coming back until then. There would be no room for SS to develop without Sasuke first returning and  then setting up moments between them. Besides, we don't know when Kishi is ending his manga. For all we know, there couple be a couple more arcs. It's almost nearing the end of the year and Kishi still needs to address many things, including final NaruSasu fight, Orochimaru, Obito, Madara, (if he doesn't want rage, the Hyuga etc) so  "developing when it's about to end" might not necessarily be the case. Again, Sasuke just got there during a pretty crucial moment and it's been hard work ever since, hardly the time to be anything remotely romantic, especially since he doesn't even know Sakura still loves him. So first, we'll need Sasuke to be aware of her remaining feelings, like Naruto was aware of Hinata's love. Then we'll see.

I do believe in SS, and I'll ship it even if it goes down, but I have faith Kishi will deliver.

Very convincing points Bubbles! Somehow, NH and SS show something: Hinata and Sakura became more mature about knowing themselves and their feelings for their love ones. As far as Naruto and Sasuke are concerned, Naruto needed time to realize what love is and Sasuke needed time to achieve his goals. Now his heart needs to recover from the pain he endured so that he fully can express himself.

Both girls are actually very patient in their way of loving. On the other hand, both boys have enough issues to deal with before making a significant move to the ones waiting for them.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by RosettaMyst on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:31 pm

Bubbles wrote:This is how I feel, I guess a bit of my interpretation of SS/NH.

I really don't think that it matters much how many chapters it's been since 181. For NH, yes, Naruto has begun sending more concrete signals, but at the same time, these signals have really only just  begun occurring. Naruto didn't show any signs of even answering Hinata's confession until 120+ chapters later when everyone was saying Naruto was ignoring her confession, and 615 didn't happen until another 50+ or so chapters. So is there a chapter limit on how many chapters need to go by before we need proof that they still care or care at all? If so, who decides the limit?

I thought Bee fight made it pretty evident that Sasuke still thinks of his whole team. (the picture according to databook represents more than just a photo of them. It was regarded as being special  to Sasuke. It's a representation of what he'd left behind as well as what gives him true strength. They represent friendship, love.) The bond is still there, which means the bonds they made are still present, no matter how many chapters it's been because Sasuke hasn't broken these bonds.

The development doesn't go away unless Sasuke actually breaks his bonds and shows us he really doesn't give a hoot all around. If bonds don't go away with time, enduring a hell of a lot of pain, and transcends death, what would 2.5 years of distance change? Especially since the first reunion and Bee fight (around the 400's showed he still thought about his teammates.) Sasuke going mental at Kage Summit doesn't mean his bonds are broken either, especially after everything that's happened since then.

Perhaps Kishi didn't show Sasuke thinking of Sakura individually because it would have been a bit of a giveaway. Kishi has kept Sasuke's true feelings for Sakura hidden. We know she was once precious to him and that she filled his lonely existence with love, and that she was a comrade. Naruto was also precious, was also a comrade, and was his best friend.I'm sure Kakashi was special to him too, a comrade and a sensei. What was Sakura? Just a special person and comrade? Or something else Kishi is hiding? Sasuke also needs to answer his final question. Who am I? This is most likely going to be intertwined with his redemption.

All we need is definite evidence that Sasuke could very well be interested in her and it's set.

With 437: We knew he [Naruto] cared for her [Hinata] because she's his friend and comrade, she just confessed her love for him while risking her life, then was severely hurt by the enemy in front of him. Uh, yeah he went 6 tails.)

Sakura is still in love with him [Sasuke] after all this time and Sasuke just got there and is finally on their side for once and already we have Sasuke smirking at her power, instead of the usual monkey faced/scared look Kakashi and Naruto gave when first witnessing her strength. Not to mention this is the first time Sasuke has seen anything from her.) To me, this smirk is more than just some little thing. (Like, Kishi could have just shown him commenting like Shizune without a smile, just a matter of fact, or perhaps a bit of surprise. Instead, we get a sexy smirk from him.)

It's not huge, but it tells me something: Sasuke was not shocked by Sakura's strength, while her other teammates were. I think this is quite telling. To me, this shows Sasuke already believed in her ability, which is why he'd kept telling her to keep training instead of fooling around, yet at the same time genuinely praised her skill. I understand by wanting more concrete evidence, but again Sasuke has really only just assembled with them and they haven't had the time yet. It's all a matter of when, not if imo.

I think that SS had a huge chunk of it's development in Part I (Sakura going from fangirl to genuinely wanting the best for Sasuke and growing stronger for her friends, Sasuke going from distant and cold, to someone who would die for her and Naruto, who would place her in high enough regard that he'd say "even  you, when referring to her. These are subtleties I feel Kishi placed intentionally. Because this is Sasuke. He's not going to be so open about this, when he wasn't even trying to be too open in general. It's the way he words things, the expressions on his face (or lack thereof when Kishi hides his expressions) and the responses of others when noting these that should be looked at. Kishi drops subtle hints with SS such as the Hospital Scene, hiding most of Sasuke's reactions throughout 181, the less subtle fact that Sakura was able to get Sasuke to reverse his CS, which  (to me at least) seemed to suggest she'd had a degree of influence over his mental state, etc.)

Meanwhile, NH had little development in Part I aside from Naruto changing his original opinion of her, and Hinata growing a bit more confident. That's why it was more necessary for Part II development on NH part. That, and the fact that NH had Naruto's feelings for Sakura that needed addressing as well (even if it wasn't love). SS however, had the majority of it's development in Part I already. The only thing I feel that stopped SS was Sasuke's revenge, which really has nothing to do with SS pairing since Sakura is not intertwined with his revenge. Naruto and Kakashi are more so than she, as one is his rival to compete with and the other his sensei who he originally learned from to become stronger. Sakura could offer him nothing (except her help) in his revenge, but even then she wasn't a part of it. With Sasuke, his love life and goals are separate things that are being addressed separately. Right now, his ideas for the future need to be addressed, with the whole Bijuu thing. This links with his goals.

Though perhaps Kishi will have Sakura finally be intertwined with helping change him. We all know Naruto is going to be a big role, and I hope Sakura plays the role in his mental recovery, healing his heart and brightening both their futures.

I think that NH is also more intertwined with the plot as well as having links to the titular characters development. (98, which built Naruto's confidence leading him to defeat Neji, 437 Naruto turns 6 tails leading him to meeting his dad, leading him to controlling Kyuubi, 615 Hinata lifts Naruto out of despair, etc.)

In SS's case, Sasuke's story was something Sasuke had to do and figure out by himself, while NH is more directly intertwined with the involved characters individual developments.

With Sakura, Sasuke couldn't let her in with nothing falling into place for him when it came to his goals at the time. He left because of this, and came to believe bonds were a curse, and you know the story. Anyhow, he's back now and Kishi is being ambiguous with him again, yet he's smiling with Naruto and it's all very confusing and intriguing to me.

It's just a matter of when Kishi is going to reveal his plans with Sasuke and hopefully something positive will come of it.

All this being said, I'm not saying SS (should it happen) will have Sasuke suddenly being all in love with Sakura. I think that's too much to ask. But at the same time, Kishi might very well have some flashbacks or things from Sasuke's side in store, you never know. He does like to interrupt big battles with flashbacks and backstories. And since I'm one of the SS fans who is hoping for a 181 callback (much like NH waited for 437 reply), hopefully via Sasuke's side. It's like Tobirama said, the Uchiha value love and friendship the most, and they are also the ones who tend to hide their more affectionate traits, but hopefully this won't stay the case with Sasuke for much longer.

NH has been getting spoiled with development even during the war arc, so I'm hoping Kishi does deliver some SS as well, more from Sasuke's side. But overall, SS I feel just needs Sasuke's side, like NH still needs concrete Naruto's side. Kishi likely kept SS toward the end because Sasuke wasn't coming back until then. There would be no room for SS to develop without Sasuke first returning and  then setting up moments between them. Besides, we don't know when Kishi is ending his manga. For all we know, there couple be a couple more arcs. It's almost nearing the end of the year and Kishi still needs to address many things, including final NaruSasu fight, Orochimaru, Obito, Madara, (if he doesn't want rage, the Hyuga etc) so  "developing when it's about to end" might not necessarily be the case. Again, Sasuke just got there during a pretty crucial moment and it's been hard work ever since, hardly the time to be anything remotely romantic, especially since he doesn't even know Sakura still loves him. So first, we'll need Sasuke to be aware of her remaining feelings, like Naruto was aware of Hinata's love. Then we'll see.

I do believe in SS, and I'll ship it even if it goes down, but I have faith Kishi will deliver.

Wow, good points, you might just end up converting me to start shipping SS, and I really do meant that. Don't get me wrong, I still have my dislikes for it. But it seems with every SS post I read, those dislikes start to fade.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Zora on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:17 am

Sasuke and Sakura.
This couple can make me cry.
I've been shipping them since I was an immature 6 year old kid, which was when I first started watching Naruto on Tooniverse(Korean anime channel)
Lol I used to kiss my TV whenever Sasuke showed up lmfao xD
But inside my heart was always, ALWAYS SasuSaku.
I didn't even know these two characters well, nor did I ever tried to get to know them...
I was merely focussed on Sasuke just like how a 6 year old fangirl would be like, but deep inside I still loved SasuSaku from the bottem of my heart even though I barely understood anything as a kid.

Love is not always about farting rainbows and butterflies like disneyland.
His pain and her healing.
His hatred and her love.
His darkness and her light.
The pain love SasuSaku is amazing.
The tragic moments and painful actions.
But one does not simply give up.
Those downfall moments...
Yet Sakura's persistence of love after that has taught me that romantic feelings does not always have to involve positive rainbows and sunshine moments to be able to keep going.
^_^
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Re: my sasusaku rant

Post by Haru Glory on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:41 am

Bubbles wrote:
Spoiler:
This is how I feel, I guess a bit of my interpretation of SS/NH.

I really don't think that it matters much how many chapters it's been since 181. For NH, yes, Naruto has begun sending more concrete signals, but at the same time, these signals have really only just  begun occurring. Naruto didn't show any signs of even answering Hinata's confession until 120+ chapters later when everyone was saying Naruto was ignoring her confession, and 615 didn't happen until another 50+ or so chapters. So is there a chapter limit on how many chapters need to go by before we need proof that they still care or care at all? If so, who decides the limit?

I thought Bee fight made it pretty evident that Sasuke still thinks of his whole team. (the picture according to databook represents more than just a photo of them. It was regarded as being special  to Sasuke. It's a representation of what he'd left behind as well as what gives him true strength. They represent friendship, love.) The bond is still there, which means the bonds they made are still present, no matter how many chapters it's been because Sasuke hasn't broken these bonds.

The development doesn't go away unless Sasuke actually breaks his bonds and shows us he really doesn't give a hoot all around. If bonds don't go away with time, enduring a hell of a lot of pain, and transcends death, what would 2.5 years of distance change? Especially since the first reunion and Bee fight (around the 400's showed he still thought about his teammates.) Sasuke going mental at Kage Summit doesn't mean his bonds are broken either, especially after everything that's happened since then.

Perhaps Kishi didn't show Sasuke thinking of Sakura individually because it would have been a bit of a giveaway. Kishi has kept Sasuke's true feelings for Sakura hidden. We know she was once precious to him and that she filled his lonely existence with love, and that she was a comrade. Naruto was also precious, was also a comrade, and was his best friend.I'm sure Kakashi was special to him too, a comrade and a sensei. What was Sakura? Just a special person and comrade? Or something else Kishi is hiding? Sasuke also needs to answer his final question. Who am I? This is most likely going to be intertwined with his redemption.

All we need is definite evidence that Sasuke could very well be interested in her and it's set.

With 437: We knew he [Naruto] cared for her [Hinata] because she's his friend and comrade, she just confessed her love for him while risking her life, then was severely hurt by the enemy in front of him. Uh, yeah he went 6 tails.)

Sakura is still in love with him [Sasuke] after all this time and Sasuke just got there and is finally on their side for once and already we have Sasuke smirking at her power, instead of the usual monkey faced/scared look Kakashi and Naruto gave when first witnessing her strength. Not to mention this is the first time Sasuke has seen anything from her.) To me, this smirk is more than just some little thing. (Like, Kishi could have just shown him commenting like Shizune without a smile, just a matter of fact, or perhaps a bit of surprise. Instead, we get a sexy smirk from him.)

It's not huge, but it tells me something: Sasuke was not shocked by Sakura's strength, while her other teammates were. I think this is quite telling. To me, this shows Sasuke already believed in her ability, which is why he'd kept telling her to keep training instead of fooling around, yet at the same time genuinely praised her skill. I understand by wanting more concrete evidence, but again Sasuke has really only just assembled with them and they haven't had the time yet. It's all a matter of when, not if imo.

I think that SS had a huge chunk of it's development in Part I (Sakura going from fangirl to genuinely wanting the best for Sasuke and growing stronger for her friends, Sasuke going from distant and cold, to someone who would die for her and Naruto, who would place her in high enough regard that he'd say "even  you, when referring to her. These are subtleties I feel Kishi placed intentionally. Because this is Sasuke. He's not going to be so open about this, when he wasn't even trying to be too open in general. It's the way he words things, the expressions on his face (or lack thereof when Kishi hides his expressions) and the responses of others when noting these that should be looked at. Kishi drops subtle hints with SS such as the Hospital Scene, hiding most of Sasuke's reactions throughout 181, the less subtle fact that Sakura was able to get Sasuke to reverse his CS, which  (to me at least) seemed to suggest she'd had a degree of influence over his mental state, etc.)

Meanwhile, NH had little development in Part I aside from Naruto changing his original opinion of her, and Hinata growing a bit more confident. That's why it was more necessary for Part II development on NH part. That, and the fact that NH had Naruto's feelings for Sakura that needed addressing as well (even if it wasn't love). SS however, had the majority of it's development in Part I already. The only thing I feel that stopped SS was Sasuke's revenge, which really has nothing to do with SS pairing since Sakura is not intertwined with his revenge. Naruto and Kakashi are more so than she, as one is his rival to compete with and the other his sensei who he originally learned from to become stronger. Sakura could offer him nothing (except her help) in his revenge, but even then she wasn't a part of it. With Sasuke, his love life and goals are separate things that are being addressed separately. Right now, his ideas for the future need to be addressed, with the whole Bijuu thing. This links with his goals.

Though perhaps Kishi will have Sakura finally be intertwined with helping change him. We all know Naruto is going to be a big role, and I hope Sakura plays the role in his mental recovery, healing his heart and brightening both their futures.

I think that NH is also more intertwined with the plot as well as having links to the titular characters development. (98, which built Naruto's confidence leading him to defeat Neji, 437 Naruto turns 6 tails leading him to meeting his dad, leading him to controlling Kyuubi, 615 Hinata lifts Naruto out of despair, etc.)

In SS's case, Sasuke's story was something Sasuke had to do and figure out by himself, while NH is more directly intertwined with the involved characters individual developments.

With Sakura, Sasuke couldn't let her in with nothing falling into place for him when it came to his goals at the time. He left because of this, and came to believe bonds were a curse, and you know the story. Anyhow, he's back now and Kishi is being ambiguous with him again, yet he's smiling with Naruto and it's all very confusing and intriguing to me.

It's just a matter of when Kishi is going to reveal his plans with Sasuke and hopefully something positive will come of it.

All this being said, I'm not saying SS (should it happen) will have Sasuke suddenly being all in love with Sakura. I think that's too much to ask. But at the same time, Kishi might very well have some flashbacks or things from Sasuke's side in store, you never know. He does like to interrupt big battles with flashbacks and backstories. And since I'm one of the SS fans who is hoping for a 181 callback (much like NH waited for 437 reply), hopefully via Sasuke's side. It's like Tobirama said, the Uchiha value love and friendship the most, and they are also the ones who tend to hide their more affectionate traits, but hopefully this won't stay the case with Sasuke for much longer.

NH has been getting spoiled with development even during the war arc, so I'm hoping Kishi does deliver some SS as well, more from Sasuke's side. But overall, SS I feel just needs Sasuke's side, like NH still needs concrete Naruto's side. Kishi likely kept SS toward the end because Sasuke wasn't coming back until then. There would be no room for SS to develop without Sasuke first returning and  then setting up moments between them. Besides, we don't know when Kishi is ending his manga. For all we know, there couple be a couple more arcs. It's almost nearing the end of the year and Kishi still needs to address many things, including final NaruSasu fight, Orochimaru, Obito, Madara, (if he doesn't want rage, the Hyuga etc) so  "developing when it's about to end" might not necessarily be the case. Again, Sasuke just got there during a pretty crucial moment and it's been hard work ever since, hardly the time to be anything remotely romantic, especially since he doesn't even know Sakura still loves him. So first, we'll need Sasuke to be aware of her remaining feelings, like Naruto was aware of Hinata's love. Then we'll see.

I do believe in SS, and I'll ship it even if it goes down, but I have faith Kishi will deliver.


Pretty much this. xD

Imo Sasuke and Sakura attempting to kill each other during their reunion at the Kage Summit Arc means nothing. Since they didn't want to kill each other they were just on opposing sides of the shinobi world. If Sasuke really didn't care for Sakura he would have just killed her straight up as soon as she arrived.
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Re: my sasusaku rant

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