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Is Obito Justified in his actions

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by racefan1992 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:09 am

Madara did play a part in Obito turning to the darkside. However, he still chose the walk that path. When he lost Rin, he said "#$@& all."

Obito throw away everything because he lost the girl he cared about.

Naruto was:
1. saved by himself (he did play a part in saving himself)
2. Friends (pretty much everyone)
3. Hinata (said so himself twice)
4. His dad
5. Kurama
6. Anyone else you wish to add here.

Obito can only be saved by one person:
1. Rin (back from the grave Walking Dead style)

That is only way i see him being "fully" saved. Otherwise, he'll be dead when the war is over.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Bubbles on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:14 am

What happened to Obito's family? Kishi didn't bother showing them. Was he also an orphan or something? Did he have some kind of terrible homelife? Because why else would he kill his own family/clan just because Rin died? That's insane.

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Aelita on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:46 am

^Nah, he was portrayed as a normal kid from the Uchiha clan, very respectful to his elders. The only things he shared in common with Naruto was his dream, some personality traits, the blue/orange color scheme and messy spikey hairstyle. Background story wise and past trauma-department wise Naruto and Obito were nothing alike. Yeah he had some insecurities like most kids do, but for the most part Obito lived a nice life.

And that's exactly what makes Obito's choices and deluded mindset so horrific. The reason he contributed in killing the Uchiha clan was because it helped him further his goals towards the Moon's eye plan. But to him, he could always re-create the Uchiha in his genjutsu anyway, so its not like their deaths bothered him. Because of this "nothing in the world matters" mindset Obito has created, he can operate without a conscious. And because of the sociopathic nature of this behavior he can't see the sheer self-centered-ness of it all.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Strawberry on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:36 pm

No, I don't think Obito is justified in his actions at all. His "Because you let Rin die!" line, has been the most disappointing line he's said so far.

He created Akatsuki, he manipulated Nagato, he controlled the Mizukage, killed the Jinchurikis, caused Minato and Kushina's deaths and started the 4th Shinobi World War. All of that "because you let Rin die".

His reasoning was poorly handled. He had amazing potential as a final villain. His back-story was good for that, considering he at the tender age of 12(?) was already questioning the Shinobi system. But no, Kishimoto decided to ignore the great potential he had and just go with the route of a broken-hearted villain. It just doesn't work for me.

He talks a lot about loneliness, but his so called loneliness was actually his choice. He could've gone back to the village, to Kakashi and Minato. He knew the real reason why Rin died, so he could've returned. But instead he decided to go back to Madara, and for the wrong reasons. It really doesn't help how at the age of 30+, he's shown obsessing over a 12-year-old. Maybe he loved her back in the day, but he's had more than enough time to move on.

After he was revealed to be the masked man, no, that's not right.. after he revealed his reason to do it all was Rin it went downhill for his character. It's just not my cup of tea at all.

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Mustang on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:30 pm

This is amazing, so far we have seen two sides of the coin in this thread, the debate on whether Obito is justified in his actions or not seems to be up to whatever perspective each one of us has, I personally found that Obito has caused too much damage, he will most likely die after this war is said and done.

I also find that his character is beyond redemption, due to the people he has killed all because of the fact he couldn't let go of the past

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by GreatKungLao on Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:12 am

I was trying to make some research and come to conclusion, that "old" Obito is still alive.

Read this:
Spoiler:





In Obito and Kakshi dialogue it was said, that Obito did get rid of all his memories about the past and don't care about them anymore, which is making him even worse, than trash. Getting rid of memories about your precious people, who became dead is something, that will never fill up your hole.

But then why do we have this in the future chapters?
Spoiler:







If he really did rid off from his memories and everything, that connected him with reality, why then he is thinking about the past in those pages? He said, that he don't care about memories, because it makes the hole in his heart wider, but here... He remembers everything. So I think, that there is still the Obito, who cares about memories of his past and they are precious to him. Old Obito can be saved.

Plus
Spoiler:


Maybe I'm reading wrong, but here Obito's eyes said, that he feels sorry, for what he have done.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:32 am

Definitely GreatKungLao. Old Obito is still there somehow, but still, that does not wipe way what he did. And I even think he does not like the way he is now. He thought he could handle to become the Juubi's jin but he has become a monster that he can't control.

So, his plan somehow turned against himself because in the state where he is now, I can't imagine him making his Great Moon Eye Plan possible.
He's now a pure killing machine.

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:50 am

Irielo wrote:Definitely GreatKungLao. Old Obito is still there somehow, but still, that does not wipe way what he did. And I even think he does not like the way he is now. He thought he could handle to become the Juubi's jin but he has become a monster that he can't control.

So, his plan somehow turned against himself because in the state where he is now, I can't imagine him making his Great Moon Eye Plan possible.
He's now a pure killing machine.

I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Obito kill Madara just like Darth Vader and the emperor in "Return of the Jedi".

That' just leaves Naruto and Sasuke to try and kill each other.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:40 am

engetsu wrote:I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Obito kill Madara just like Darth Vader and the emperor in "Return of the Jedi".

That' just leaves Naruto and Sasuke to try and kill each other.

I agree on that. Since the predictions for chapter 638, I was thinking about that...

Spoiler:
Like Majin Boo who killed Babidi in DBZ

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:39 am

Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Obito kill Madara just like Darth Vader and the emperor in "Return of the Jedi".

That' just leaves Naruto and Sasuke to try and kill each other.

I agree on that. Since the predictions for chapter 638, I was thinking about that...

Spoiler:
Like Majin Boo who killed Babidi in DBZ


I think your Majin Buu analogy is very appropriate, especially since the Juubi has seemed to have robbed Obito of most of his mental faculties.

But I'm hoping that in killing Madara, Obito redeems himself in some sort of way. Which honestly seems likely to happen, because Kishi has gone out of his way to explain the logic and emotion behind Obito's plan. He doesn't make Obito completely evil, unlike Madara who kishi purposefully made out to be a tyrant. To me, Obito is just begging to get talk no jutsued into helping destroy Madara one way or another some time later in the plot.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:42 am

engetsu wrote:
Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Obito kill Madara just like Darth Vader and the emperor in "Return of the Jedi".

That' just leaves Naruto and Sasuke to try and kill each other.

I agree on that. Since the predictions for chapter 638, I was thinking about that...

Spoiler:
Like Majin Boo who killed Babidi in DBZ


I think your Majin Buu analogy is very appropriate, especially since the Juubi has seemed to have robbed Obito of most of his mental faculties.

But I'm hoping that in killing Madara, Obito redeems himself in some sort of way. Which honestly seems likely to happen, because Kishi has gone out of his way to explain the logic and emotion behind Obito's plan. He doesn't make Obito completely evil, unlike Madara who kishi purposefully made out to be a tyrant. To me, Obito is just begging to get talk no jutsued into helping destroy Madara one way or another some time later in the plot.

For this "talk no jutsu" I'd prefer to see Minato and Kakashi dealing with that, not an Edo Tenseid Rin...
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:48 am

Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:
Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Obito kill Madara just like Darth Vader and the emperor in "Return of the Jedi".

That' just leaves Naruto and Sasuke to try and kill each other.

I agree on that. Since the predictions for chapter 638, I was thinking about that...

Spoiler:
Like Majin Boo who killed Babidi in DBZ


I think your Majin Buu analogy is very appropriate, especially since the Juubi has seemed to have robbed Obito of most of his mental faculties.

But I'm hoping that in killing Madara, Obito redeems himself in some sort of way. Which honestly seems likely to happen, because Kishi has gone out of his way to explain the logic and emotion behind Obito's plan. He doesn't make Obito completely evil, unlike Madara who kishi purposefully made out to be a tyrant. To me, Obito is just begging to get talk no jutsued into helping destroy Madara one way or another some time later in the plot.

For this "talk no jutsu" I'd prefer to see Minato and Kakashi dealing with that, not an Edo Tenseid Rin...


Ewww.... I don't even want to think about that.

Speaking of Kakashi, where the hell is Kakashi? Is he just chilling in his little Kamui world or something?

I can see the Hashirama and Madara fight continue for a few chapters, as well as the fight between the old Hokages/Naruto/Sasuke and Juubito as well. I still have no clue what Madara's trump card is though (might make a thread about that) but whatever it is, I think it will be the event that turns Obito against Madara.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:03 pm

engetsu wrote:Ewww.... I don't even want to think about that.

Speaking of Kakashi, where the hell is Kakashi? Is he just chilling in his little Kamui world or something?

I can see the Hashirama and Madara fight continue for a few chapters, as well as the fight between the old Hokages/Naruto/Sasuke and Juubito as well. I still have no clue what Madara's trump card is though (might make a thread about that) but whatever it is, I think it will be the event that turns Obito against Madara.

This Kakashi, he has always a lack of chakra and he is wounded now... I don't really know how he'll get back on the battlefield... But if he can, I assume Sakura will have to heal him on the spot.

Spoiler:
Oh man! That's annoying! Always when the discussion is growing, it's time for me to go to bed. Anyway I hope we'll discuss about all these interesting issues later on
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:07 pm

Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:Ewww.... I don't even want to think about that.

Speaking of Kakashi, where the hell is Kakashi? Is he just chilling in his little Kamui world or something?

I can see the Hashirama and Madara fight continue for a few chapters, as well as the fight between the old Hokages/Naruto/Sasuke and Juubito as well. I still have no clue what Madara's trump card is though (might make a thread about that) but whatever it is, I think it will be the event that turns Obito against Madara.

This Kakashi, he has always a lack of chakra and he is wounded now... I don't really know how he'll get back on the battlefield... But if he can, I assume Sakura will have to heal him on the spot.

Spoiler:
Oh man! That's annoying! Always when the discussion is growing, it's time for me to go to bed. Anyway I hope we'll discuss about all these interesting issues later on

What timezone are you in anyway?
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:12 pm

engetsu wrote: What timezone are you in anyway?

Answer

Spoiler:
Central Europe. Now it's 1:15 am and I have a looongue day in front of me tomorrow. I think I'll be able to come back here in the morning then maybe on Sunday afternoon or evening... Have a nice day or goodnight!
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:18 pm

Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote: What timezone are you in anyway?

Answer

Spoiler:
Central Europe. Now it's 1:15 am and I have a looongue day in front of me tomorrow. I think I'll be able to come back here in the morning then maybe on Sunday afternoon or evening...

Spoiler:
well good luck, don't be a stranger
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by GreatKungLao on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:52 pm

Since you have start about Darth Vader way of redemption, here is a very good picture about that: http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/362/0/d/uchiha_obito_vs_darth_vader_theory_by_kakashifanchiyo-d5pfjnr.jpg

And this is just an awesome fan-art, that makes a lot of sense now: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mel11ykEzr1qea7tao1_1280.jpg
Artist: http://mariaklepikova.deviantart.com/
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by racefan1992 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:34 am

^

Obito doesn't have any kids. Reguardless of what happened to Vader, he loves his kids no mattter what. The Emperor never toke that away from Vader.

Obito lost Rin and never gained anything after that. Though i do see the similarities between them, Vader was saved by his kids.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by engetsu on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:06 am

GreatKungLao wrote:Since you have start about Darth Vader way of redemption, here is a very good picture about that: http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/362/0/d/uchiha_obito_vs_darth_vader_theory_by_kakashifanchiyo-d5pfjnr.jpg

And this is just an awesome fan-art, that makes a lot of sense now: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mel11ykEzr1qea7tao1_1280.jpg
Artist: http://mariaklepikova.deviantart.com/

That is some pretty good alt art!

But now I know I'm the first to think of it, and now I feel slightly less smart for having not thought of it first.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Bubbles on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:16 pm

I don't think Obito is at all justified. Okay, Rin died. That sucks, but friends die, and you're supposed to grieve and then move on, remembering them and honoring their memory.

Obito, you looked like you have lived a pretty damn good life up until then, so there is no Naruto comparison aside from what we got from the manga really. If Naruto had taken Obito's path before he made his bonds, it would at least be more justified because Naruto was hated by his entire village. He didn't have bonds and people who cared about him that were living.

He had to act out to get attention, and even that of course was negative. Obito didn't have that. He had squabbles with his hardened teammate Kakashi, but Rin and Minato were clearly nice to him, and he had a family and comrades, So what gives? Rin died.

Okay that sucks ass Obito, and you 'loved' her, but what about your mentor? your friend? Your dream? Don't you love your own family? My problem is, why was Rin the turning point? Why was she more important to him than say his own family? We didn't even get to see what Rin really was to him.

He liked her and she was nice, but that's it. The reason I don't feel sympathy, nor do I feel he is justified in any way is because he is psycho, doesn't have one bit of a good reason for doing what he's doing and Kishi didn't elaborate on why Rin was even his turning point when he still had plenty of reason to go back to the village and move on.

Not to mention he [Obito] shits all over Rin and her decision by doing this, yet claims to care about her. Please. If you really cared that much about Rin, you'd respect her decision to die by the one she loved hand and for the village she wished to protect. It isn't your choice who lives and dies and when, and everyone dies someday, it happens. Especially in your profession.

Rin died honorably, a true shinobi. I think you are scum Obito. You are the worst of scum. You killed your own sensei and his wife, and tried to kill their newborn son. You are responsible for the majority of tragedies in everyone's lives and you try and justify it with your little fairytale land you've decided to force others into. Or rather, a bunch of true fakes.

No, not justified at all. I don't see him getting redeemed either. Perhaps a bit mentally, but I don't see him surviving this war. Nor do I want him to.

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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by racefan1992 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:21 pm

^

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:38 pm

Bubbles wrote:I don't think Obito is at all justified. Okay, Rin died. That sucks, but friends die, and you're supposed to grieve and then move on, remembering them and honoring their memory.

Obito, you looked like you have lived a pretty damn good life up until then, so there is no Naruto comparison aside from what we got from the manga really. If Naruto had taken Obito's path before he made his bonds, it would at least be more justified because Naruto was hated by his entire village. He didn't have bonds and people who cared about him that were living.

He had to act out to get attention, and even that of course was negative. Obito didn't have that. He had squabbles with his hardened teammate Kakashi, but Rin and Minato were clearly nice to him, and he had a family and comrades, So what gives? Rin died.

Okay that sucks ass Obito, and you 'loved' her, but what about your mentor? your friend? Your dream? Don't you love your own family? My problem is, why was Rin the turning point? Why was she more important to him than say his own family? We didn't even get to see what Rin really was to him.

He liked her and she was nice, but that's it. The reason I don't feel sympathy, nor do I feel he is justified in any way is because he is psycho, doesn't have one bit of a good reason for doing what he's doing and Kishi didn't elaborate on why Rin was even his turning point when he still had plenty of reason to go back to the village and move on.

Not to mention he [Obito] shits all over Rin and her decision by doing this, yet claims to care about her. Please. If you really cared that much about Rin, you'd respect her decision to die by the one she loved hand and for the village she wished to protect. It isn't your choice who lives and dies and when, and everyone dies someday, it happens. Especially in your profession.

Rin died honorably, a true shinobi. I think you are scum Obito. You are the worst of scum. You killed your own sensei and his wife, and tried to kill their newborn son. You are responsible for the majority of tragedies in everyone's lives and you try and justify it with your little fairytale land you've decided to force others into. Or rather, a bunch of true fakes.

No, not justified at all. I don't see him getting redeemed either. Perhaps a bit mentally, but I don't see him surviving this war. Nor do I want him to.

Bubbles, what you wrote was epic. You made my day!
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by GreatKungLao on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 pm

In protection of Obito go insane. Let's take his love for Rin very seriously. If his love has come from very bottom of his heart and soul, then he became like this because of Uchiha's curse.

Spoiler:







"The deeper their darkness becomes, the more powerful their eyes get, and it's impossible to handle them".

Now, if the eyes is a symptom, that shows how strong Uchiha been hurted because of lost love, then you can clearly see, that Obito has been sunked in the darkness at the same moment he saw Rin died.
Spoiler:







Now, sorry for bringing up the parallels, but during childhood Anakin Skywalker was also a very good and kind boy. Yet, when he saw in his dreams of future, that Padme will die, he started searching for power, that can prevent this from happening. So it brought him to the Dark Side - he became Darth Vader and killed a lot of people and slaughtered all kids from Jedi Academy. Further he will start destoying planets with his Death Star (Moon Eye in Naruto), yet - after all this madness he was redeemed.

It's a fictional worlds and we can't possibly imagine, how those "Uchiha's Curse" and "Dark Side" works on person's psychology.
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Irielo on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:33 pm

^The "curse" of the sharingan? Itachi and Shisui Uchiha are there to show that there were Uchiha who had brains.

Even to use the augment that Obito was young is not comparable to Itachi's sacrifice and pain.

But like SenpaiSamaSan wrote it in this thread, Obito might have been manipulated by Madara thanks to the Senju's half he implanted...
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Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

Post by Strawberry on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:36 am

Bubbles wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't think Obito is at all justified. Okay, Rin died. That sucks, but friends die, and you're supposed to grieve and then move on, remembering them and honoring their memory.

Obito, you looked like you have lived a pretty damn good life up until then, so there is no Naruto comparison aside from what we got from the manga really. If Naruto had taken Obito's path before he made his bonds, it would at least be more justified because Naruto was hated by his entire village. He didn't have bonds and people who cared about him that were living.

He had to act out to get attention, and even that of course was negative. Obito didn't have that. He had squabbles with his hardened teammate Kakashi, but Rin and Minato were clearly nice to him, and he had a family and comrades, So what gives? Rin died.

Okay that sucks ass Obito, and you 'loved' her, but what about your mentor? your friend? Your dream? Don't you love your own family? My problem is, why was Rin the turning point? Why was she more important to him than say his own family? We didn't even get to see what Rin really was to him.

He liked her and she was nice, but that's it. The reason I don't feel sympathy, nor do I feel he is justified in any way is because he is psycho, doesn't have one bit of a good reason for doing what he's doing and Kishi didn't elaborate on why Rin was even his turning point when he still had plenty of reason to go back to the village and move on.

Not to mention he [Obito] shits all over Rin and her decision by doing this, yet claims to care about her. Please. If you really cared that much about Rin, you'd respect her decision to die by the one she loved hand and for the village she wished to protect. It isn't your choice who lives and dies and when, and everyone dies someday, it happens. Especially in your profession.

Rin died honorably, a true shinobi. I think you are scum Obito. You are the worst of scum. You killed your own sensei and his wife, and tried to kill their newborn son. You are responsible for the majority of tragedies in everyone's lives and you try and justify it with your little fairytale land you've decided to force others into. Or rather, a bunch of true fakes.

No, not justified at all. I don't see him getting redeemed either. Perhaps a bit mentally, but I don't see him surviving this war. Nor do I want him to.

Perfect post, is perfect. +Rep.

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