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Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

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Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by chennyyeo on Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:28 pm

Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Im currently debating my ns friends right now. Haha. They said that naruhina waa forced. And naruto only fall for hinata in the movie.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by racefan1992 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:41 pm

Some say Chunin Exams, some say 437 after Hinata confessed, some say 615 handhold or (if you are me) 677 when Hinata called out mentally to Naruto when IT was cast, he heard her and was willing too go and get her.

The Last proves that Naruto (depending your definition of time when he fell for her) was already in love with her, Kishi and Studio Perriot (mostly Kishi) want too give Naruto more romance and explain Chap. 700 when it shows Naruto and Hinata married and with 2 kids.

NH was not forced, NS would have been forced and required Hinata and Saskue too be "cupids" for NS too happen. Plus it was never romantic anyway.

http://zoe-chan.tumblr.com/post/109358331323/hinaxnaru-ok-this-is-the-best-scene-in-all

Show your NS friends this, Sakura just demolishes NS all by herself.

If your NS friends still do not get it: http://batokusanagi.tumblr.com/post/106654844312/nh-kiss-slightly-better-looking-version

If the points hasn't gotten across, then well walk away. You are victorious anyway. Canon NH is.

This post sponsered by a Neutral shipper.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by chennyyeo on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:42 pm

Thanks! I ready now for a battle! Haha
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:13 am

If your friend still can't accept the fact than you must let it be. Because currently NS fandom already poisoned by anti-Naruto view, I hope your friend freed from anti's influence since it very sad saw fellow fans falls into anti's trick.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:47 am

What do they mean by "forced""? Forced implies 1: It was kind of done against someone's will. 2: Unnatural.

Its debatable if Naruto loved Hinata before the Last (I'm not sure which way I go on it myself), but I will go along with their view that he falls in love after he realizes just how precious she is and how much she cares for him, with the past memories and events helping to shape it. And I'm going to argue that's not worse than falling in love in the manga, but better. Lastly, I will show its definitely not "forced", or "rushed".

First off, this is the progression of every love story with a hero in it. If NH is forced, then Shrek and Fiona is forced, or Harry Potter and Ginny. They fell in love in days, and they didn't even get along at first. Unlike NH, they didn't have years and moments and someone already loving them to make it work at a quicker pace. When you incorporate romance in a action/adventure movie like this, its going to go faster. They use Summary (The quick Naruhina date-like scenes you see when they are in the village) on quite a few romantic moments, and Scene (When Hinata gets caught in the spider web, and after Naruto gets caught in one himself, the irony!) on others. The use of both (Not uncommon in romances) helps speed and show along the progression of falling in love, rather than painstakingly going through every scene, since the audience is also here for the action/adventure as well. Its giving the love the treatment it needs to develop to the point of Naruto's confession. It also is setting up later Hinata's rejection with Toneri's visit, and the Sage's brother vision.

The rule of all of these love stories is there is some trigger that changes the hero's view. When the love is unrequited its usually an event that makes the Hero realize how precious the person who loves them is. Sometimes its through dating the wrong person, or the person they love going with someone else (Love Triangle.), or sudden absence of this precious person. Absence is powerful in love and the Last uses the Love Triangle and Absence, along with the Genjutsu event to make Hinata's preciousness to Naruto sink in. He now has all these memories he can remember vividly from the past.

If they mean forced as in it took a scarf and genjutsu to shape it; they can state that. But neither would work on their own: Every event in the manga is necessary for the weight of the effect to work.  It didn't "Force" him to fall in love. That was chemistry and feelings at work. If he wanted to just be a nicer friend, he could have been. He didn't enter the relationship out of guilt either; you don't say I love you because you feel guilty. His confession is genuine, because his heartbreak is evidence of it. The heartbreak scene and the efforts to get him to stand up are clear evidence he was in love, and it was not "forced."

If they argue it took a movie to do it, was it such a bad idea? It's sold nearly if not 2 billion yen. I'd have preffered to watch it on screen then read it develop myself in the manga as the chapters after. Besides, ending on a Naruto vs. Sasuke note with an Epilogue is more appropriate for the manga in my opinion. I wouldn't have wanted that change. Would they? Plus it was the Author's wish to wait until they were older. Its not as bad as others think: It'd have been the same for -any- other couple, and gosh, it was nice seeing them as adults anyway.

Sorry, that's my long response. I wouldn't debate with some Anti-NH (I don't call them NS if they're anti, they are not the same to me.) They're bitter, and will be still for months to come.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by racefan1992 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:14 am

^

Too add to that. Someone on Tumblr makes a great case that Naruto DID love her but couldn't analyze his own emotions or Hinatas because he lacks the experience too draw from. Now as far fetched as that may seem, i'm kinda inclined too agree with that person.

Yes it may have taken a genjutsu too for Naruto too understand but he DID understand. And it completely fits his character the way he confesses too her (more irony, Hinata did know he loved her until he confessed, kinda like 437). It was the good old Naruto way, just blurt it out son. After that he went through it like anyone who was LOVE with someone but Sakura helped him out, brought him out of his depression (Sakura is a star in that moment, as well as encouraging Hinata in the movie as well) and giving Naruto the knowledge that Hinata will never stop loving him.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by chennyyeo on Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:35 am

i read a post on tumblr. one user said that the genjutsu scene actually reinforce the fact that naruto has feeling for hinata even before the movie but just oblivious to it. i mean, right after he saw the memories, he act differently towards hinata so quickly. (like minutes/hours only) on what reason? and after that, he started to flirt around hinata (again, it took only hours). so, i think, he realized that he also loves her. (not fall for her) cause... love is not an instant thing.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by Irielo on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:51 am

I did not see the movie and I try to avoid the spoilers. All I have to say is that Naruto already developed more than friendship feelings for Hinata after her confession.

Basing myself on chapters 558-559, 614-616 and 677, his behavior pointed out that he was in the process of reciprocating Hinata's feelings. Now, a confession from Naruto in The Last is just a way to make his feelings for her official and undeniable.

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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:07 pm

After doing reading and re-reading, I'm on the boat that he has loved her, but he didn't understand what he felt. Which reminds me of another story that is slipping my head, le sigh.

So the OP is right, really. Naruto realizes he loves Hinata too; after understanding her, and then his own feelings. The reason why I believe that now is because of the way he willingly and unconsciously let himself slip into great hate during the pain Arc, because of love, and his admiration, and even wanting Hinata to be watching when he defeated Neji.

Sadly, I have not read all of part 1 (Or part 2), or watched all of it, but I really need to go back and do that. I think I entered right in the middle around the Pain Arc, when Naruto was pinned to the ground and Pain was giving his speeches.

And if you want one of the better written essays to use as a base, I'd use this one: http://remedialaction.tumblr.com/post/108604416740/the-long-form-naruhina-essay
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by Irielo on Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:35 pm

There is already the idea of a progression regarding Naruto's feelings when it comes to Hinata in part 1. From "dark weirdo" to the blood vow until the "people like you I really like", there is a positive development which was already hinting that Hinata would become Naruto's love interest one day.


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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:38 am

But explain to NS is really hard one because their arrogant attitude and their hobby twisting fact. I believe that the reason SS keep popular while NH rising popularity despite NS agresive attempt.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by racefan1992 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:01 am

db84x wrote:But explain to NS is really hard one because their arrogant attitude and their hobby twisting fact.  I believe that the reason SS keep popular while NH rising popularity despite NS agresive attempt.

Some NS read the manga wrong.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:31 am

Its not so much they read it "wrong". Its that they can't let go of something they championed for so long until it was crushed. And for some, that crushing took a bitter effect.

We definitely need a new essay about Naruhina now with many having viewed the last and the entire manga about this and other points that get brought up to update our defense. :)
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:14 pm

H. Uzumaki wrote:Its not so much they read it "wrong". Its that they can't let go of something they championed for so long until it was crushed. And for some, that crushing took a bitter effect.

We definitely need a new essay about Naruhina now with many having viewed the last and the entire manga about this and other points that get brought up to update our defense. :)

Actually that not really necessary because Kishi himself shot every NS argument, usually there are some consolation prize for non canon pair if they large enough, but in Naruto there isn't any of it for NS.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:46 am

db84x wrote:
H. Uzumaki wrote:Its not so much they read it "wrong". Its that they can't let go of something they championed for so long until it was crushed. And for some, that crushing took a bitter effect.

We definitely need a new essay about Naruhina now with many having viewed the last and the entire manga about this and other points that get brought up to update our defense. :)

Actually that not really necessary because Kishi himself shot every NS argument, usually there are some consolation prize for non canon pair if they large enough, but in Naruto there isn't any of it for NS.

Sadly, that's not enough evidence for some. (And essays are fun to write.).

On topic, which scene in part 1 or part 2 was the moment Naruto was in love without knowing it?
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:33 pm

You can find it here .   Too bad NH chilhood part and most legendary moment is on filler, but since NH canon we can count it too.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by racefan1992 on Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:42 am

db84x wrote:You can find it here .   Too bad NH chilhood part and most legendary moment is on filler, but since NH canon we can count it too.

Filler is still filler. The manga and the The Last movie are the only things that count.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:39 am

racefan1992 wrote:Filler is still filler. The manga and the The Last movie are the only things that count.

Without that NH won't get promince, don't forget that Kishi admit that sometimes he on edge.  And if we saw manga there are big possibility change plan in beginning part 2 (That time SS and NS neck to neck while NH is still obscurity).  WSJ editor can change mangaka plan if it not popular, that why Kishi have some animosity with SP staf who dare to change his work.  Luckly SP staf made mistake by made Chikara bug arc, since that balance shift to Kishi original plan. Honestly racefan1992 without water dance scene, do you think NH will got prominance ?
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by Irielo on Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:11 am

db84x wrote:Without that NH won't get promince, don't forget that Kishi admit that sometimes he on edge.  And if we saw manga there are big possibility change plan in beginning part 2 (That time SS and NS neck to neck while NH is still obscurity).  WSJ editor can change mangaka plan if it not popular, that why Kishi have some animosity with SP staf who dare to change his work.  Luckly SP staf made mistake by made Chikara bug arc, since that balance shift to Kishi original plan.  Honestly racefan1992 without water dance scene, do you think NH will got prominance ?

One of the reason why NS started to get popular was actually because of fillers too... The manga is the original story. If people can not understand where the story was hinting and developing as far as the pairings are concerned, if they clang to none-canonical material like fillers and believed them to be a part of the original story, they just have to blame themselves.

If you take a look to this thread, you might realize that most of the people here like the pairing from moments which come from the manga:

http://naruhina.lovediscussion.net/t46-what-are-your-reasons-for-liking-naruhina?highlight=reasons

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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by racefan1992 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:44 am

db84x wrote:
racefan1992 wrote:Filler is still filler. The manga and the The Last movie are the only things that count.

Without that NH won't get promince, don't forget that Kishi admit that sometimes he on edge.  And if we saw manga there are big possibility change plan in beginning part 2 (That time SS and NS neck to neck while NH is still obscurity).  WSJ editor can change mangaka plan if it not popular, that why Kishi have some animosity with SP staf who dare to change his work.  Luckly SP staf made mistake by made Chikara bug arc, since that balance shift to Kishi original plan.  Honestly racefan1992 without water dance scene, do you think NH will got prominance ?

SP makes crap up. You know this right? There is even a SP director that is HEAVILY BIAS too NS. The scene in the anime where a girl wanted Narutos babies and Naruto said "I do not care wither Sakura-chan loves me or not. I'll still win her affections." That was from the bias Pro-NS director.

SP randomly changes stuff around and ruins the characters Kishi created because they have no idea what the hell they are doing.

Some recent SP work:
http://ilikesakura.tumblr.com/post/110196196884/like-seriously-sakura-can-heal-herself-she
http://yuzu-maki.tumblr.com/post/109428985448/studio-pierrot-continues-their-inaccurate

SP is crap period.

The ONLY thing SP has done "decent" recently is use the Ep. 166 confession (a copy and paste of it. They are too damn lazy too rewrite the whole thing and it came out 3 years ago.) The bully scene from the same episode. Or atleast the scenario is canon. You could go as far as saying the whole 166 episode is canon itself but that is debatable. BTW they use both of those things in Naruto: The Last movie...... which is canon.

Filler is filler and filler is crap. SP is crap. They are bias and inaccurate with what they do too Kishis work. Either accept it or you do not.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:39 pm

I disagree.

SP has some nice work and enhancements to Kishimoto's manga. Shippuden Episode 364 comes to mind. Making Sakura lift up the ground to protect another was much better than her only moving to dodge the ten tail's lethal attack.

And they brought the Last. I <3 the Last.

With that in mind, there are some baaaaaad SP episodes. The Gaara Episode right before the Hanabi episodes was so ugh! There was so little new material covered, it was mostly flashbacks of things you already knew. But the Hanabi episodes were quite nice in contrast, and the Madara episodes afterwards sufficiently entertaining.

Maybe we can continue this discussion in an episode thread once I make one to discuss my thoughts about the present filler episodes. Honestly, I would defend SP.

Firstly, is the director really to blame for any episodes putting Naruto that way? There is a scriptwriter first who wrote the lines. They discuss the plot in storyboards, but the individual line really boils down to the scriptwriter. The director approves of it in the end, but it is a certain group of people responsible, certainly not the entire SP, and certainly not the director themselves.

We want our characters to be strong 100% of the time, but they can't develop within the episodes if they are. In the first example you put out, Sakura was put in that situation so we can notice there's another healer, and she's capable, just like Sakura is. Yes, Sakura could have healed herself, but it was set up that way so the character introduction and analysis could be set up. Sakura isn't weak here; we're just trying to state the other healer is capable.

I'll post more since that is an episode within the current chuunin exams filler arc soon in another thread.

And on Naruto with Sakura's affections thing; to me he's not -really- desiring her love persay (By now you know what he thinks love is at this point in time), what he really wants is her full acknowledgement. Which she certainly does give later on.

They don't have a NS bias. They certainly don't have a Pro-Hinata bias either as such that has been thrown around. They're just people who want to create entertaining stories for people in their business.

They have some bad episodes, which usually lie in flashback filer (Or flashbacks in canon) that cover already established material and not anything new. Yet they also have some good ones, and ones that make the manga chapters they cover far better. All in all, the Naruto Anime is not that bad overall, in my opinion.
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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by Irielo on Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:42 pm

The point is about fillers, right? As they are not part of the original story, they are like fan fictions. One can find some nice or bad. What disturbs is the fact that some fillers are sometimes integrated into the episodes which are supposed to follow the original story. I don't mind 100% filler episodes as the watcher is supposed to know that they are not part of the story.

Unfortunately, there are people who never read the manga and sticked to the adaptation which is the anime thinking it is the original story... Even fillers are used as discussion when it comes to the pairings and when it comes to fillers, NH and NS have their share of fillers (confusing some people) unlike the manga which is pretty straightforward regarding the pairings.

Now, if people want to waste time fighting about pairing matters with fillers in mind, it will lead to nowhere as those fillers mean nothing to the original story.

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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by Mustang on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:41 pm

Well here is a little link that we all might enjoy, the official NaruHina family facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Uzumaki-Family/401570650018293

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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by H. Uzumaki on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:45 pm

Ooh. I like the pictures on that page.

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Re: Does the last implies that naruto love hinata before the movie?

Post by db84x on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:46 pm

@ racefan1992 & Irielo
I understand your anger especially when you ship SS too because they twist it very heavily until the end.  But we can't ignore that Chikara bug arc one of the finest NH filler.

@ H. Uzumaki
I believe anger of Naruto fandom stem from fact fact that because SP twist fandom is split in substantial number into anti's.

@ Mustang
Thank for link, btw this is NH and MK pic enjoy.

Spoiler:
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