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The Anti-<a class=

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Haru Glory on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:22 am

Tbh I really don't care for NaruSaku and I don't even ship NaruHina any more since I'm just expecting it to happen. One of my friends used to be for NaruHina but then became a NaruSaku since she loves Sakura so much and then just starts to bash the heck out of Hinata and NaruHina calling it one sided and dull. Then she even spews nonsense like Naruto loves Sakura, it's confirmed in the manga, brings up things from Sai and makes it seem like he knows them a lot and then even says something as ridiculous as if NaruHina happens it'll an asspull on Kishi's part. I mean.   The real asspull is Sakura just falling for Naruto now even though if it was going to happened it would have been ages ago.


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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Irielo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:12 am

Nasch wrote:Tbh I really don't care for NaruSaku and I don't even ship NaruHina any more since I'm just expecting it to happen. One of my friends used to be for NaruHina but then became a NaruSaku since she loves Sakura so much and then just starts to bash the heck out of Hinata and NaruHina calling it one sided and dull. Then she even spews nonsense like Naruto loves Sakura, it's confirmed in the manga, brings up things from Sai and makes it seem like he knows them a lot and then even says something as ridiculous as if NaruHina happens it'll an asspull on Kishi's part. I mean.   The real asspull is Sakura just falling for Naruto now even though if it was going to happened it would have been ages ago.


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Actually, it is funny to read the reasons why a pairing is shipped... Your friend might have not really supported NaruHina to have such a change of heart. Well, everybody is free... Anyway, it contrasts with you who even do not ship NH anymore because you expect it to happen.

As far as I'm concerned, I support NH pairing for what it represents first of all, not because of pairing wars nor if it's going to happen or not.


Last edited by Irielo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:33 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Correcting a mistake.)

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Haru Glory on Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:07 am

Irielo wrote:


Actually, it is funny to read the reasons why a pairing is shipped... Your friend might have not really supported NaruHina to have such a change of heart. Well, everybody is free... Anyway, it contrasts with you who even do not ship NH anymore because you expect it to happen.

As far as I'm concerned, I support NH pairing for what it represents first of all, not because of pairing wars nor if it's going to happen or not.

I still get along with her but it's grating to hear her glorify her ship so much and then criticize NaruHina shippers whenever they prove her wrong or point out the flaws of her glorification.

Not really, I expect that it would happen but I don't care too much for results and still value what the ship has taught me. I just care more for the characters and progression of the story more then I do about shipping. I know it kind of devalues the point of being on a shipping forum but that's just how things have gone and I didn't stop shipping them cause of wars or results I'm just too preoccupied with the series itself to worry about shipping.
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:44 pm

you know in the last few chapters I have noticed how Sakura is asking Naruto about Sasuke's well-being, the one thing that I would like to point out, is Naruto doesn't seem fazed, sure the situation is a little desperate due to the enemy they are facing, but that didn't stop Naruto from being Naruto in the last chapter. I remember when Naruto would get all upset if Sakura was even mentioning something about Sasuke, he would go around and do something stupid.

It is like he knows that Sakura will be Sakura and she will love Sasuke, she again is showing a lot of concern about Sasuke, even in the presence of Naruto's shadow clone, and yet that clone isn't even showing any signs of being upset, even in this stressful situation the only one Sakura is thinking about is Sasuke, even in the presence of Naruto's clone and Kakashi.

might be jumping the gun a little bit here, and I can accept that part, but the last few chapters have been Anti-NS with a small dose of Pro-SasuSaku (albeit one-sided, on Sakura's behalf) I think we will find out some more in the coming chapters.


Last edited by Mustang on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : just adding something)

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Batokusanagi on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:32 pm

Naruto's known about Sakura's feelings for a while now. NS has to assume that:
1. Naruto doesn't really care about Sakura's feelings or thinks they're bad for her.
2. Like NS, he thinks Sakura's still only fangirling about Sasuke or that she only loves her own image of Sasuke and not the real one.
3. Like NS, he thinks Sakura is falling out of love for Sasuke.
4. Naruto's totally determined to be with Sakura.

All 4 just prompts for NS fanfics with no bearing on manga canon at all.
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:05 pm

lets destroy those little assumptions again shall we?

1. Naruto knows and acknowledges Sakura love for Sasuke, not once has he thought down upon them, he cares about them and doesn't want to interfere, because Sakura's feelings are important, this is something Naruto also acknowledges and accepts at the same time.

2. Naruto knows that Sasuke isn't perfect, in fact he sees Sasuke as someone very similar to himself, the same painful past and the same disregard the rest of the villagers gave them, Naruto also knows full well that Sakura loves Sasuke genuinely, he doesn't seek to interfere with sakura's love for Sasuke, this was shown in the POAL.

3. the most recent chapters have shown quite clearly that Sakura isn't falling out of love with Sasuke, in fact she is showing more concern for Sasuke and his well-being, a person who is supposedly falling out of love with the one of their affections doesn't call to ones name almost everytime they get a bit of panel time, Kishi is simply showing the readers that Sakura still loves Sasuke, I am willing to bet that we will see Sakura getting emotional once her and Sasuke reunite.

4. again with that one, I think I have destroyed that on a few occasions, oh well let it think what it wants, we all know what Naruto's goals are and they aren't about being with Sakura in a romantic light.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Irielo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:39 pm

Mustang wrote:2. Naruto knows that Sasuke isn't perfect, in fact he sees Sasuke as someone very similar to himself, the same painful past and the same disregard the rest of the villagers gave them, Naruto also knows full well that Sakura loves Sasuke genuinely, he doesn't seek to interfere with sakura's love for Sasuke, this was shown in the POAL.

Naruto and Sasuke could understand each other because they both suffered from loneliness but they did not have the "same past". Naruto lost his parents some minutes after he was born whereas Sasuke grew up with his family and inside his clan until the Uchiha massacre. Naruto did not have an elder brother as role model who, one day to the other one, became the worst possible enemy.

I disagree with "the same disregard the rest of the villagers gave them". Yes, Naruto was disregarded because of him being the Kyuubi's Jin, but Sasuke was seen as the one who survived the Uchiha massacre. Remember, only some high placed people knew about the Uchiha's issue but Konoha in general did not know and still does not know about it. It's only when Sasuke joined Akatsuki, that people started to consider Sasuke as a criminal.


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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:45 pm

Mustang wrote:you know in the last few chapters I have noticed how Sakura is asking Naruto about Sasuke's well-being, the one thing that I would like to point out, is Naruto doesn't seem fazed, sure the situation is a little desperate due to the enemy they are facing, but that didn't stop Naruto from being Naruto in the last chapter. I remember when Naruto would get all upset if Sakura was even mentioning something about Sasuke, he would go around and do something stupid.

It is like he knows that Sakura will be Sakura and she will love Sasuke, she again is showing a lot of concern about Sasuke, even in the presence of Naruto's shadow clone, and yet that clone isn't even showing any signs of being upset, even in this stressful situation the only one Sakura is thinking about is Sasuke, even in the presence of Naruto's clone and Kakashi.

might be jumping the gun a little bit here, and I can accept that part, but the last few chapters have been Anti-NS with a small dose of Pro-SasuSaku (albeit one-sided, on Sakura's behalf) I think we will find out some more in the coming chapters.
Your absolutely right, I been noticing that too, that Naruto has not shown any care besides support for Sakura & Sasuke, and the well-being of Team 7. Its like the parallel to back then when he would but has grown from that, I think Kishis been trying to show us how much they've grown. Cause I too remember how he'd get jealous but now.. he doesn't care, more like accepts and moved on [knowing theres someone else, idk.. Hinata in his mind :)?] The only think remotely close to Naruto acknowledging anything was when Sasuke jumped in front of Sakura & Naruto said "Uhh I'm here too Sakura-Chan" it was funny, like Team 7 all over again, just not Naruto caring so much for the attention from her like he use to.

It actually reminds me of the parallel with Sakura back then not wanting to give CPR to Naruto but to Sasuke, but was willing as character development and maturement on her part to do it to Naruto in this war, did it and for a really good friend at that wanting him to accomplish his dream. She obviously has her hands full on catching up with Sasuke, wondering, seeing where this goes with him. And you notice NS getting upset over this then calming it down after justifying "its not a big deal, she'll soon get over him just watch."   
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Irielo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:20 pm

When Naruto said to Sakura that he was also here, that he also saved her, it was not out of jealousy but he wanted to be rightly acknowledged for what he has done. Sakura, on the other hand, got so pumped up to see Sasuke fighting again by her side that she simply got carried away. Actually, this was an intense emotional moment for her.

Again, Naruto knows that Sakura loves Sasuke, that she cares for him. I think he also knows that Sasuke would be happy to have someone like Sakura by his side if he decides to open his heart. Naruto reminding Sasuke about their fight against Zabuza and Haku, was a way to show him that he does care.

Naruto knows that despite Sasuke's rudeness, the latter is not completely indifferent as one can see here. During this moment, Sakura was unconscious and did not hear what Sasuke asked Naruto.

That's why Naruto is in a position where he knows things about Sasuke which Sakura does not know, the same way he knows that she can bring the happiness Sasuke needs in his life.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:47 am

what that really shows now, is not only does Naruto acknowledge SasuSaku, he supports it in his own way, he knows Sakura's feelings all too well, but I also think that without even knowing Sasuke has shown to some extent that he does have feelings towards Sakura, this is something that Naruto might have witnessed some time ago, he might not have been too experienced a while ago, but now he knows much better, maybe that is in part due to his growing maturity.

So really NaruSaku was really a non-entity, that being because Naruto knows that there is something going on between Sasuke and Sakura and he doesn't want to get between them, even after this war.

Naruto also knows full well that Sakura cannot let go of her love for Sasuke, really the last few chapters have proven it, even in these dire situations, Sakura seems to be thinking a lot about Sasuke's well being, knowing that there is a chance that she might lose him, which I doubt will happen anyway because Kishi tried that already and there is no point in doing it again.


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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:36 pm

Yep. But NS thinks that Sakura will get over Sasuke, that thats supposed development for her character and NaruSaku. Which is very demanding of a theory if you ask me. I mean, Sakura and Sasuke obviously need the closure. NS thinks of the closure to be Sakura telling Sasuke off and switching from him to Naruto in an instant. Doing that forces your characters into awkward and negative positions and put Team 7 in jeopardy as well bond wise considering if Sasuke comes back [And he will cause I have faith  ]

It would bring a very weird atmosphere to the Team if NS happened, and i believe Sai will no longer be on it, or there to take turns with Sasuke or be an add-on maybe or whatever but Sai's goal was for Naruto & Sakura's wish for Sasuke to come back to be true, but as the old person he use to be. So go figure.

And NS gets very defensive when Sauske's in the picture & Hinata. Why? Why be so defensive if NS is suppose to happen? Because Hinata has made an impact on Naruto since the Chunnin Exams, And Sakura has developed into a better shinobi/person because of Sasuke since the Chunnin exams as well, considering shes very strong headed and always told what was what or have to be, belittling Naruto like a child telling him these things, while Sasuke was there to tell Sakura whats up and she'd take it very seriously thus why she cares for him to even now. And if anything NS should thank Sasuke for helping Sakura with her character development and her change of character towards Naruto not for pairing reasons but for Sakura's personal development. But no cause Sasuke is evil and treats Sakura like shit and never gave a shit. *rolls eyes* There is unsettled business and supposedly shes suppose to tell Sasuke off and go with Naruto guys, and Naruto has no say in this what so ever. *Sarcasm* I'd like Sakura to give Sasuke a piece of her mind, but that won't ruin a pairing at all..... it just ties up loose ends.


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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by senjusana on Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:24 am

What NS fails to understand is that,Sakura herself had acknowledged Hinata's love for Naruto in the Pain arc.I see it in this way that Sakura is jealous of Hinata.Not because she loves Naruto but the way she loved him.She was willing to die to protect him.This inspired Sakura and that's why she was willing to kill Sasuke in order to save him from darknes.That's the least that she could do.
NS is not able to digest the fact that NaruHina has been acknowledged by various people in the manga itself.

Rock Lee and Sakura
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Neji and Sakura
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Kiba
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:13 pm

Sakura isn't jealous of Hinata (other than in chest size; still annoyed that Kishimoto went there). What Hinata did for Naruto in the Pain Arc had already been done by Sakura during the Oto/Suna invasion during the Gaara/Sasuke fight (that became the Gaara/Naruto fight). I don't even think Hinata's actions then would've "inspired" Sakura either considering all ninjas have it in their minds to be willing to die for who they love. There's also a huge difference between being willing to give your life for someone else's versus trying to kill someone to stop them from being horrible.
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:43 pm

What NS fails to understand is that,Sakura herself had acknowledged Hinata's love for Naruto in the Pain arc.I see it in this way that Sakura is jealous of Hinata.Not because she loves Naruto but the way she loved him.She was willing to die to protect him.This inspired Sakura and that's why she was willing to kill Sasuke in order to save him from darknes.That's the least that she could do.
NS is not able to digest the fact that NaruHina has been acknowledged by various people in the manga itself.

Sakura isn't jealous of Hinata (other than in chest size; still annoyed that Kishimoto went there). What Hinata did for Naruto in the Pain Arc had already been done by Sakura during the Oto/Suna invasion during the Gaara/Sasuke fight (that became the Gaara/Naruto fight). I don't even think Hinata's actions then would've "inspired" Sakura either considering all ninjas have it in their minds to be willing to die for who they love. There's also a huge difference between being willing to give your life for someone else's versus trying to kill someone to stop them from being horrible.


I think of it as that Sakura has acknowledged & realized how much Hinata is willing to go through for Naruto. And the reason she knows of it is because of her personal experience with Sasuke. Shes in love with him, said the word "Love" to Sasuke, and he never got back to it, more or less he said "Thank You." SasuSaku whether anyone supports it in this club or not to me is more of a "To be continued" type of pairing that is hugely supported out there. And Hinata said "Love" to Naruto which is a big impact of a word to just be toss around just like that. Sakura realizing, acknowledging that Hinata "Loves" Naruto is a big thing. Even using the word to state the obvious is a big thing for Sakura and us audience to know that Sakura knows the boundaries with Naruto [Protagonist] & Hinata [Love Interest]. Not in a competition way that NS likes to put it as but in a, she understands why Hinata did this, considering that she has went as far as betraying the village if it meant to be with Sasuke. Which brings me to Sakura saving Sasuke by killing him because she loves him. And the FailFession. Sakura in that time had alot going on in her mind, Sasuke joining akatsuki, Tsunade out for the count, Sais guilt trip of how she sucks as a friend considering what Naruto has done for her, and finding out by Shikamaru that Sasuke needs to be killed. She has a breakdown, thinks to go and give herself to Naruto to ease him from finding out about this through Konoha, his friends. Thinking of anyway to bring him back to the village to not carry her burden "The Promise" on him. Making us NH fans think "You just confirmed Hinata loves Naruto and here you are FailFessing to him?" Which I do not support what Sakura did, I'm just glad Naruto saw through it and showed maturity about his feelings are not so easy going as he was as a child who desperately didn't care how to get Sakura as long as he got her. It shows development for Naruto. And shows Sakura still hasn't gotten over Sasuke. And her walking away apologizing to herself to Naruto, knows she messed up. Regardless Sakura was meant to be the one to acknowledge Hinata's love for Naruto, so it reminds her of the path to save Sasuke and that no matter what she will still go as far to rescue Sasuke regardless of whats in the way. [Though not shown, during this realization of hers of Hinata's love, but confirms to her she knows whats up.]

Also, I was looking around today and read something that said


"The only reason Sakura punched Sai in the face for talking bad about Sasuke was because Naruto was hurting from it so she did it for him" & "Sakura will prove Sasuke wrong soon and move on!"


  

Apparently. NS tends to take Naruto Part 1 & throw it away like it doesn't exist. Sasuke doesn't care about NOTHING, never did. -sarcasm- Sakura will in a second in time say this "Sasuke-Kun I don't love you anymore.. My heart belongs to Naruto cause he was there and always has been. Naruto.. you and I now can go make babies, laugh and point at Hinata for trying & let me punch Sasuke-Kun in the face for our amusement" The End. -NS

Yeah. What a beautiful ending. NS and NH have stuff in common. Naruto never knew how Hinata truly felt for Naruto. And Sakura never knew how Sasuke truly felt for Sakura. Its all unsaid, and unfinished. Sasuke & Naruto are two different people. Sasuke holds in his emotions [Plus gets an excuse of a sort for the Uchiha Biology thus brought up by Tobirama how Uchihas can go crazy from loving someone or people], Naruto is naive and doesn't know how to go about it. These two tend to leave their "Love Interests" in question, us and themselves as well. Mainly Sakura. Because Naruto has been speaking volumes through actions with Hinata. And now Sasuke & Sakura's time to shine is about to come. Sakura has so much more to know of Sasuke, [The Uchiha Massacre for example] Which Naruto knows of and Sasuke's true feelings, cause Naruto was there when Sasuke would talk great and fond of Sakura [Part 1 & Sasuke's recent actions hes hiding] of how much Sakura means to him. I doubt Naruto would get in the way of that and I doubt Sakura would get in the way of Naruto & Hinata after her realization. [Which Sakura never was after Naruto to begin with]

Plus Naruto didn't need that to show him that he should leave Sakura alone in the love circle, it was Hinata who has grown on Naruto more then ever since her confession. Naruto and Sakura seeing how much the other [Sasuke & Hinata] knows of them is a parallel in itself mirroring them to let the other to be with the one they cherish and/or love. Naruto & Sakura's acknowledgement of Sasuke & Hinatas feelings does not mean that the reason they are leaving the other alone is because they see what the other is capable of with love, its because they truly in their hearts know where to go.

Furthermore, I really doubt a clone of Naruto's will romantically have a moment with Sakura going to get Sasuke..... Seriously. All NS has is parallels, I see it say that parallels are not enough that it needs the pairing to move forward and have a one on one moment to confirm itself. So lets wait for Sakura to make that last second change of heart and end the pairing war soon! *more sarcasm*
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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:17 pm

Even the Parallels are worthless now, the Kushina Parallel is a complete joke, I don't even know why NS wastes an argument on that parallel, the Jiraiya/Tsunade parallel, how well did those two work out, Tsunade was in love with another man, and she still loves that other man, even though he is dead, not sure about Jiraiýa's feelings towards Tsunade since he was known for chatting up every beautiful woman coming his way.

ObiRin, well Obito was friendzoned much like Naruto was by Sakura. NS using parallels is like it is scrapping at the botton of an empty barrel in hopes of finding water, there is nothing there to give it strength, if NS cannot find anything to go inside Naruto's and Sakura questionable romantic development, then that also proves that NS has nothing to make an argument with.

Forcing Sakura to move on when there is no proof behind it, also proves how desperate it is especially considering that Sakura is showing more concern for Sasuke, even while in a very stressful situation, that shows that Sakura hasn't moved on and most likely never will, she is loyal to her feelings and will never be displayed as shallow, like NS wants her to be.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by lily567 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:35 pm

read it and counter here

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:47 pm

it is trying really hard to say that Naruto is in love with Sakura, even though there is no clear indication of that being the case, it makes all characters involved in this pairing thing (war or whatever) look shallow, Hinata and Sakura both, it also makes Naruto look childish, to which it goes he cannot let go of his childish crush and it makes Sasuke out to be an evil bastard. Not taking into consideration of the feelings of all parties involved.

for the most part there is no clear indication to prove that Naruto is in love with Sakura, it can scrape the bottom of the barrel as much as it wants, if there is no wine there, then there is no wine to drink, to claim that Naruto's feelings towards Sakura are as clear as crystal is plain arrogant. to say that all Hinata cares about is her feelings while neglecting Naruto's feelings is outrageous, seriously Hinata isn't going to force Naruto into anything if he doesn't want to, Hinata is purely giving Naruto the space he deserves that is something she knows all to well, she is making all the right moves.

Hinata knows full well, that there is nothing but friendship between Naruto and Sakura, to make it look like something more, well I will leave it at this point.

there is no clear indication that Sakura has moved on, considering that there has only been a little over 24 hours since Sakura was thinking about Sasuke, she isn't going to let go of her love towards Sasuke, even Naruto knows that, he isn't going to force Sakura to change her mind from one man to another. again it cannot make an argument without making the characters look bad.

in that page it makes Hinata look shallow, makes Naruto look childish, makes Sakura seem like she is incapable of making her own choices and lastly making Sasuke an evil jerk. that argument just proves the point, you know, it tries so hard to downplay true romantic hints, then overplay moments that have no romantic implications, these moments between Sakura and Naruto have no romantic implications, just like there is no romantic development between Naruto and Sakura, yet it tries really hard, I guess that is the problem when every argument it tries to make up is nothing but a rinse and repeat of past arguments, most of which has already been countered, not by NH or SasuSaku, but by the characters in the story itself.

Using Sai to prove there is romance between Naruto and Sakura, is just pure desperation, maybe that is because it forgets that a few chapters later Sai reminded Naruto, "You know Naruto, Sakura loves Sasuke," something that Naruto has already acknowledged and accepted.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:03 pm

That blog.. it looks more to be of Hinata being accepted more of a friend then a love interest for Naruto. And that moments [NH] have happened the same "type" in its own way for [NS] that makes it just as romantic/countable moment. Which I'd have to disagree, only because many serious heartfelt moments are NaruHina, and of Naruto knowing more and more about her since Hinata's confession. No negativity. No rejection or awkwardness on his part when he sees her. Hinata has made it known since in time itself shes admired Naruto and has grown to love him just for him being him. The ONLY one, ever besides Iruka.

I always thought reading this that it was Kishis mission to eventually have Hinata out her feelings and have Naruto fall for her after knowing. Not because Hinata deserves it, but Naruto has never had anyone in any romantic way tell him how they feel. Never knew girls liked him that way ever. All he ever knew was his crush on Sakura which never went anywhere, but as a crush. Nothing serious ever was pushed for these 2 to happen. I doubt Kishi will end the series with Sakura & Naruto together, Sasuke back in the village friends with them, Sakura not feeling feelings for Sasuke, and Hinata just there when Sakura knew Hinata loved Naruto. And Naruto knew how much Sakura loved Sasuke and how Sasuke always thought of her as someone precious to her that Sakura does not know of. The vibe in the air, the morality of the story wouldn't be right. Wouldn't feel right. Why emphasis "Love" for Naruto so much on Hinata's character JUST to have her not end up with the protagonist at the end?


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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:36 pm

to me the morality is this, those that work the hardest, not seeking any reward for their efforts, not pushing the envelope, (like Hinata isn't pushing Naruto) giving the one they love space. you know it is those sort characters that get what they want, even if they didn't ask for a reply.

let's look at the two girls.

Sakura: at first she was pushing herself on Sasuke, she loved him in part one, but was always forcing herself onto Sasuke, this kind of rubbed Sasuke the wrong way, he saw Sakura as a girl who was just like any other girl, forcing the issue, yet as time went on Sakura began to understand Sasuke even more, not to the level that would help them develop a relationship, but it was a huge step for both characters, when Sakura confessed, it was from the bottom of her heart, no strings attached. now she Loves Sasuke, no strings attached, but she still feels like she doesn't understand him, I think this will be brought up in the near future.

Hinata: she loves Naruto, but never pushed herself onto him, she gave him the space she felt he deserved, she can read his thoughts, she never got jealous of the interactions between Naruto and Sakura and is willing to make her move when the time is right, the one thing I feel NS is threatened by is the fact that Naruto can be himself, open up about his thoughts towards Hinata. I am guess Hinata knows full well that Naruto could return her love for him.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Irielo on Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:47 pm

lily567 wrote:read it and counter here

So, I've tried to address some of the arguments I've read on that blog


Spoiler:

If you compare what Naruto and the girls’ have done to show their romantic love in the manga, it quickly becomes apparent that Naruto’s romantic feelings are presented every bit as seriously and intensely as the girls’ feelings are.

R: Naruto ist he main hero in this story. It makes sense we’ll have more insight regarding his life than other characters. The fact that Naruto had a crush for someone he found attractive at first (Sakura), befriended her secondly until realizing that she loves his best friend and the fact that he came to know to which extent another girl, Hinata, loves him, created the opportunity for him to think about love. That’s not a coincidence that he asked Kushina how she fell in love with Minato and how Hinata and Sakura were the two girls in front while thinking about his friends during this interaction.

Even if Sakura doesn’t reciprocate his feelings, a confession from Naruto is necessary for the story

R: Why forcing Naruto to confess when the story is not going in this direction (Naruto in love with Sakura)?

It would do wonders for Sakura for her to hear directly from him that what she’s done has helped him enormously, to thank her for being there for him and for supporting him, and to let her see herself from his eyes.  It would help her gain a much needed more positive outlook on herself in general.

R: Bad luck. Hinata was acknowledged by him in that regard. Thinking that Naruto should do the same for Sakura, is a wishful thinking. Naruto knows how decisive Hinata’s support was/is in his life. That does not diminish Sakura’s character and her support as teammate. She knows that Naruto already respects her. I admit however that to have a more positive outlook on herself, she would need Sasuke’s acknowledgement. Lol!

Plus, Naruto knows Sasuke is only temporarily back on their side, and that he still has to fight Sasuke to really bring him back around, so therefore, he still technically hasn’t fulfilled the POAL yet.

R: I can’t remember where Naruto thought or said that Sasuke is only temporarily back. The latter has recently stated (storytime) that he also wants to become Hokage. His questions to the Edo Hokage were about the village and the decision he would make about it. By stating that he wants to become Hokage, Sasuke showed that he was back.

The closest he ever came was in the Gaara fight, and he didn’t stop struggling to save Sakura, literally dragging his beaten body across the ground with his chin, until Sasuke told him that Sakura was safe.  Yes, Naruto was also fighting to protect Sasuke in that fight, but Naruto’s thoughts were mostly focused on Sakura.

R: Bringing that example is interesting because it is quite similar to the POAL actually. In chapter 133, Sakura is in life danger, Sasuke who has reached his limits, begs Naruto to save Sakura, the same way Sakura begged Naruto to bring back Sasuke because she could not stop him and knew that he had to be saved from the dark path he was taking. These moments just showed how precious Sakura is to Sasuke and how precious Sasuke is to Sakura. Both of them trusted Naruto to save their precious one.

Neither Sakura nor Hinata have put the boys’ feelings before their own (in order to protect the happiness of their love interest) or have been willing to emotionally sacrifice for the other for years.  Naruto has done this through the Promise of a Lifetime.

R: Hinata put her life on the line for Naruto in chapter 437, meaning that protecting Naruto was even more important than the possibility of ending up together with him. As for the POAL, Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back because it was important for him first. When he saw how Sakura was desperate, he simply empathized with her.

Naruto’s was burdened with the promise for three years, and was ready to carry it for the rest of his life in order to make Sakura happy.
 
R: If NS thinks that Sai is a prophet, then let it be. Naruto was not burdened by this promise. Sai interpreted it that way because he could not really understand why Naruto was trying to bring Sasuke back. The only thing he found, was to give a feeling of guilt to Sakura, forgetting that Naruto, promise or not, would still have tried to get his lost brother back.

She never tried to free Naruto.  She knew that she didn’t stand a chance against Pein, and so basically just went down there to get her feelings off of her chest and die in front of Naruto.

R: Every normal reader will notice that Hinata confessed when Naruto started to press her with the question of her presence there. Every normal reader will notice that the first person Hinata addressed to when she intervened, was Pein. She told him something like she won’t let him hurt Naruto again. So, her main goal was to protect Naruto. If the latter did not insist, she might have not said anything, leaving Naruto to understand it on his own. All in all, this argument is pretty lame.

Hinata has never even attempted to put Naruto’s feelings before her own.  Chapter 573 is a good example of this, in which she is only thinking of her feelings for Naruto.
Not once does she think of how Naruto might be feeling

R: If Hinata was expressing for the first time a resolve involving her and Naruto, it’s especially because she has noticed how the latter is warming up to her romatically (ch 558-559). As long as Hinata did not have such feeling, she did not make such resolve.

Just because Naruto and Hinata got more focus during several moments doesn’t mean that Naruto has/is going to grow romantic feelings for Hinata, or that he no longer has romantic feelings for Sakura, or that Kishimoto thinks that Naruto and Sakura’s relationship is less important than Naruto and Hinata’s.  After all, if you look at the story overall, Naruto and Sakura’s relationship has gotten the lion’s share of the focus in comparison to Naruto and Hinata’s relationship.

R: It is not the quantity, nor how many moments the characters share with each other. It’s more the quality of these moments which show if a moment is romantic or comedic for instance. Again, that’s quite a lame argument.

To argue that Naruto was joking in 631 warps Naruto into a petty, vindictive, hypocritical douchebag.

R: Naruto just showed that he had enough distance to joke about something he was not taking seriously anymore.

Another very important detail many proponents of this argument conveniently forget that it was specifically stated that Naruto’s seal has been weakening.

R: This argument forgets that in chapter 490, Naruto said that his heart connected directly to the Kyuubi, meaning that he did not try to stop Kyuubi taking over.

Many, if not all, NaruHina fans believe that Naruto’s line about being able to see Hinata’s strength in her eyes was romantic in and of itself.

R: Complimenting someone’s strength is something, yes but associating it with the eyes, knowing that the person is already in love, gives the feeling of romance. Naruto could have simply told Hinata that she is strong without making any association with the eyes, especially when he knows how she loves him. Telling it that way was like courting her.

The gesture of holding Hinata’s hand itself could have been romantic in nature, but then Naruto went and held Shikamaru’s hand as well in the next chapter.

R: Ridiculous argument. The way Naruto held Hinata’s hand was way different from the way he clapped Shikamaru’s one.

Naruto only held her hand to get it off of his face, help her up off of the ground, and transfer chakra to her.  This is proven by Kurama and Naruto’s conversation in the next chapter

R: Ridiculous argument. Kurama reminded Naruto what he had to do. So, Naruto’s intentions while holding Hinata’s hand was not for chakra transfer at first.

It’s also possible that Naruto meant to physically show his gratitude, or give her some extra moral support since he also gave Hinata’s hand a squeeze.
The fact that the hand hold was featured prominently on a volume cover doesn’t make it romantic either – their expressions on the cover were somber, and they were looking back at Neji, not at each other.  It simply emphasizes that the moment conveyed the message/theme of the volume well – that message wasn’t romance, it was about being strong and moving forward in the face of tragedy.

R: To express his gratitude only, he did not have to hold Hinata’s hand and squeeze it, giving her a gentle smile while looking into her eyes (633). Naruto knows that Hinata loves him. If he did not have any intention to return her feelings, then he would have behaved differently.
Volume 64 is a strong message showing that both, Naruto and Hinata need that connection to overcome some struggles in life. That’s actually the aim of every normal couple: to go on the path of life together and face whatever might come, good or bad, together.


Last edited by Irielo on Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correcting spelling mistakes)

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:30 am

Yeah, I couldn't be bothered reading it all, to me it was a rinse and repeat style of argument, we have all seen it in the past some time ago, to make it look like NH or SS is to blame for making Naruto either lying/joking to his father about the extent of his friendship to Sakura is really pathetic, to blame NH for making Naruto look petty or a douchebag, well, NS is to blame for that on a grander scale.

here is why. so it is ok to say that when Naruto is joking or not even taking Sakura's feelings into consideration, it is romantic, yet, when he does what I mentioned, it is making him look petty and a douchebag. because he isn't taking Sakura's feelings for Sasuke into consideration. the truth is, he is better than that, he knows that Sakura is in love with Sasuke, he can joke when someone jumps the gun, but he will not push the envelope, even though it would get him punched or skull bashed, but I guess confirmation from Naruto isn't good enough for NS. I think it missed chapter 632 knowing that Naruto even said it himself, "I better not joke around Sakura, or she will turn me into a stain/kill me".

NS can blame NH all it wants, it conveniently forgets Naruto's comment mere moments later. Naruto can act like a douchebag around Sakura (albeit not as often as he use to), but he acts like a man/himself around Hinata, there is no evidence left over about his now very questionable crush on Sakura, but there is evidence that there is a very good chance that he could well be falling in love with Hinata.

for the amount of times Naruto and Sakura interacted, there has been no romantic development between the two, there has been plenty of chances for that to happen, Sakura could have moved on if she chose to, Naruto's crush could have been built up so that way he could gain genuine feelings for Sakura, yet the question comes into play, has that happened yet for either party.

No it hasn't, there is no clear indication of Sakura supposedly moving on and there is no indication that Naruto still has a crush on Sakura, me thinks the Shipping glasses are thick with that blog.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Batokusanagi on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:04 pm

lily567 wrote:read it and counter here
Meh, we had like 60+ pages in the last anti-NS thread. All those arguments have thoroughly addressed. It's the same ol' no-context drivel that characterizes NS. If you notice, Sasuke doesn't even exists in this 'analysis' (nor do Sakura's feelings in general). And the NH moments are 'explained' so shallowly that it's not even funny.
There are omissions too:
-Like 490 that explains that Naruto's reaction in 437 was only because ofseeing Hinata get hurt (not killed like the post says) and not "seeing Hinata “die” in front of him was the straw that broke the camel’s back".
-The post talks about the events in the land of iron, but doesn't post the panels where Naruto and Sai say that Sakura wanted to kill Sasuke because she loved Sasuke. Naruto isn't bothered by that fact at all (the post has to go to part 1 and misconstrue Naruto's actions to try to show he still cares).
-As mentioned above Sakura and Sasuke are for the most part missing on the post. You could summarize the post with "Naruto is the MC so he matters the most".
-Doesn't address Sakura's words in 469 when she gives all to like Naruto, none of which made her actually like him.
-Omits the panel of Naruto thinking about SS being Sakura was saying she didn't like Sasuke anymore. It doesn't support the idea that Naruto, like in part 1, would look sad when seeing Sakura together with Sasuke.

Again, Naruto talking about being upset at seeing her hurt just confirms that he cares about her, but does not imply anything romantic.
But it's always romantic when it comes to Sakura, though.

And this one made me laugh:
Naruto may not have made Sakura one of his goals, but he has been shown trying to get Sakura to like him romantically on several occasions (transforming into Sasuke in chapter 3, asking her out on dates, thinking if he gets stronger that maybe Sakura will like him, then wanting to confess to her but not feeling worthy to because of the unfulfilled POA), and he definitely has made Sakura’s happiness one of his goals through the POAL (“I wanted to protect that smiling face”).  The POAL was entirely about Sakura and Naruto’s feelings for her.
Chapter 3, lol dates (not one of which actually happened and all of which taken as jokes and once used by Naruto as an excuse to hide that he was feelings sad), saying he'll master rasengan may get Sakua to like him, POAL (state by Naruto himself to be unimportant in the face of wanting to Sasuke because of his own reasons). There you go, fellow NH fans, who cares about development which leads somewhere (and is given a cover to honor) when you have a moment that happened 680 chapters ago, and a promise that hurt both Naruto and Sakura (and mostly about Sasuke) and that at this point is irrelevant.
Surely the handhold can't live up to all that. Naruto squeezing Hinata's hand and give her a gentle look after thanking her for being there for him, which later made her vow to move forward alongside him forever? Not romantic at all compared to the beauty of Naruto telling Sakura to stop lying to herself! And, of course, the manga's constant recent positive emphasis on NH, doesn't even compare to the total joke that was Naruto's comment in 631 and all of NS forgotten, not ever brought up again moments. How didn't I notice this before? What a freaking joke.

Oh, but there a 'good' (and hilarious) reason:
It simply wasn’t the time to develop Naruto and Sakura’s relationship, just like it wasn’t the time to develop Naruto and Hinata’s relationship in the chapters immediately following Naruto’s return from his confrontation with Nagato, or when Naruto and Hinata were placed on the same team to find Itachi. Their development following Hinata’s confession was saved for later.
Ah, it wasn't the time. Sasuke's been gone for 3 years and he's part of a terrorist organization; Naruto got back to Konoha some months ago and supposedly loves Sakura a lot, but, no, it totally wasn't the best time to develop (forget make canon) NS. But I can understand, it's not like NH got development right after the Pein fight was over, so the land of iron just wasn't the time. Then, what came later for NS? Surely 200+ chapters later, close to the climax of the series, is definitely the time to make NS develop, right? Nope, NS is till nowhere. And even if NH is getting all the focus right now, while NS gets none:
Just because Naruto and Hinata got more focus during several moments doesn’t mean that Naruto has/is going to grow romantic feelings for Hinata, or that he no longer has romantic feelings for Sakura, or that Kishimoto thinks that Naruto and Sakura’s relationship is less important than Naruto and Hinata’s.
...it doesn't mean anything. Naruto getting closer with the girl who confessed to him some weeks ago... how is that romantic at all, amirite?  

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Bubbles on Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:30 pm


I wrote this elsewhere, but thought I'd share it here because I'm really sick of NaruSaku's pretzel twisted standards.

My annoyance at the blatant selectivity NS has when it comes to Sakura's feelings for Sasuke is ever rising. NS/ASS acts like Sakura must get over Sasuke and it’s just “completely unhealthy and wrong” for her to love him. It ignores the themes of Kishi's manga when it comes to Sakura's love for him. How many times has Kishi shown his readers instances of unconditional love?

Parental/Sibling/Friendship/Student-Teacher and yes, romantic.

Kishi has shown us all of this, from the love Mikoto and Fugaku had for Itachi despite his choice to slaughter them all for a "greater good" to Sakura's unconditional love for Sasuke despite his choices. We have seen Itachi state he'll love Sasuke forever (unconditional) no matter what road he takes. We've seen the love Sasuke retained for Itachi despite all the suffering (both mentally and emotionally), he put him through, and even decides to protect the village and change the system in his honor. We've both heard and seen instances where Kakashi and Hiruzen still looked upon their students with affection despite the paths they took.

Naruto shows us unconditional love for a friend despite that friends darker choices, and that after everything, he still calls him his friend and wants him to cone home. All of this is made to show us the powerful bonds that have been made. Yet as soon as Kishi brings in another very important bond; the bond of romantic affection, this is somehow crossing the line. This is somehow so wrong, that it makes Sakura "retarded" or "delusional" and a "fangirl."

There is simply no way she can love that boy with all her heart and still have a mature outlook on things. This bothers me so much because it’s like NS just ignores that no matter what it thinks of the pairing, or of the story's morals, that is all irrelevant because Kishi is telling a story of strong, unbreakable bonds of all types, even romantic ones like Sakura's.

Hers isn't any less than the others just because it has to do with romantic love. It's actually a very important kind of bond to show. To show that someone can still find happiness with a loved one, that one can turn it all around and be truly happy despite their past mistakes. But somehow, Sakura can only have an acceptable bond with him if its merely platonic. I cannot even.

This is what leads me to believe it's just a cover for the obvious butthurt that Sakura doesn't love Naruto and still loves Sasuke. Sakura's feelings are made out to be this terrible thing and it becomes easier for NS to target them when its coupled with Sasuke's stance right now as well as his past behavior.

NS says things like:


"Sasuke tried to kill her!" Therefore, she should stop loving him.

"Sasuke has made her sad!" Therefore, she should stop loving him.

"Sasuke did this or that!" Therefore, she should stop loving him.


NS uses them as fuel, as to why Sakura should drop her feelings like a hot potato.  But it fails to understand that Kishi has not written Sakura's feelings with conditions.  Kishi isn't showing us that Sakura should stop loving him for these things. Kishi is showing us that she loves him despite these things. That is what unconditional love is.

Sasuke at Kage Summit? Him trying to kill Sakura was set up to illustrate how far he had fallen into the darkness. It just so happens that Sakura was the perfect example to show the reader this. But Kishi showed us 540 not as proof that she is now regretting her love as NS likes to think, but to show the reader that Sakura loves Sasuke despite how far he'd fallen.

That is what NS refuses to see, so it keeps going on about conditions, when there aren't any.

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Re: The Anti-<a class=

Post by Mustang on Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:52 pm

again with calling Sasuke, isn't he allowed to redeem himself, him learning the truth was all about redeeming himself, wanting to change the system, was all about redeeming himself, the only way Naruto and Sasuke are going to fight is for the title of Hokage, I mean really what more is there to be done after this war? it will not be to the death as the two girls will be watching from a really safe distance.

Honestly Sakura didn't fall in love with Sasuke because he was awesome, cool, handsome or really intelligent. this was something she learned as the story progressed, Sakura knows full well that Sasuke isn't perfect, that she realised in part 1, she knows that Sasuke has his fair share of issues, that she accepted in part 2, but in all of that, she loves Sasuke not for shallow reasons, like in the beginning, but she truly loves Sasuke for who he is, not what he is.

Team 7 knows that Sasuke no longer has that one desire, to get revenge, since that was what drove his character from the start, but now, he needs to discover his own goal, I think he will end up being Naruto's right hand man when Naruto decides to take the role of Hokage.

If NS is going to contort Sakura's feelings as something wrong, bash or make other characters look bad, make Naruto and Sakura look bad at the same time, as well as not looking at the morals of the story (which is bonds and loyalty, with redemption thrown into the mix), in order to defend the sunken ship, with the use of recycled arguments, then what else can it present?

I will praise NS for that blog it is well presented, but it still fails with the use of rinse and repeat arguments, Sai was told to stay out of Team 7 business, maybe that is because Sai was never truly a Team 7 member, he was just a replacement member because Sasuke was not there.

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