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Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

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Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by Irielo on Wed May 07, 2014 8:49 am

First of all, I would like to dedicate this thread to all the diplomatic issues regarding the Shinobi World. So, if you have anything to point out or you would like to discuss dealing with this theme, please share.

There is something I've actually written on another thread and I would like to address it here:

Irielo wrote:This is something I can't understand until now. Why did it have to happen this way? Ok, for plot purposes... but the Cloud set the fire: they kidnapped Hinata, Hiashi's action was thus justified. But Konoha and the Hyuuga clan had to pay the price because Hiashi killed the guy who tried to kidnap his daughter. So, Konoha wanted to avoid conflicts and accepted this unfair deal...

However, when the Sand and the Sound tried to destroy Konoha, some heads should have fallen. Take Baki of the Sand for instance, he killed Hayate just after plotting with Kabuto (ch 92). What happened to him? NOTHING! Yes, the Sand was an ally but even though they got fooled by Orochimaru, nothing happened to them. So, Konoha accepted to bow in front of the Cloud in the Hyuuga case and in Hayate's case, they acted softly, too softly imo.

I guess this has something to do with diplomatic matters. All in all I still can't accept Hizashi's death in this unfair manner although it was a way for him to free himself...

I can understand that Konoha under the lead of Hiruzen tried to maintain peace and developed a kind of conciliative attitude towards the other big villages. However, I still can't get it why they had to accept someone of the village dying in exchange of a life. Maybe that's Kumo's way  of doing things but by kidnapping Hinata, they did the offense imo. It's like welcoming someone at your place and this someone tries to stab you in the back. After defending yourself, you are then accused to be the culprit?

Sorry, I don't get that... And the poor Hayate had to die by Baki's hand and nothing happened to the latter. Suna helping Otogakure to destroy Konoha led to some serious damages including the death of Hiruzen but at the end of the day, only Orochimaru was seen as the villain... I am not counting the Sand's siblings because they were still young but Baki as a grown-up played quite a dirty game imho.

Although Danzo is the character I hate the most, I must admit that he was not so wrong while stating that Konoha had dealt with some things too softly. Anyway, maybe Konoha did not seek for revenge and did not accuse Baki but they should have never accepted Kumo's conditions regarding Hiashi/Hizashi and the Hyuugas.

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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by meow69 on Wed May 07, 2014 10:26 am

I believe that Konoha accepted Kumo's demands only because they were still weakened from the Kyuubi's attack on the village. Which at that time would have been 3 years before then. as for accepting the deal with Suna I believe most of it was because for at least a month or so (the manga isn't clear how long exactly) Konoha had no sitting Hokage. I am sure that Suna made some reparations to Konoha at least money wise. Though it is never shown all the manga said was Suna surrendered. Most Surrenders have terms though they were never shown in the manga. Most countries do not demand executions for soldiers following orders unless there is a war crime committed. Baki was simply following orders like any other soldier. With Kumo if the Kyuubi hadn't weakened the village then I do not for see that Konoha would have  accepted it. In a way I could also see Hiruzen getting somewhat soft in his old age. Remember Hiruzen lead Konoha in two of the shinobi wars he is no stranger to casualties of them. If he didn't retaliate against Kumo then I am sure he had a reason even if that reason is never stated in the manga.
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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Wed May 07, 2014 11:55 am

^Pretty much. I've always felt that Hiruzen was avoiding war with Kumo. Remember, Kumo would've had two jinchuurikis to use against Konoha (and Killer Bee works really well with Gyuki). Konoha might've still had Kurama, but there's a difference between having an adult Kushina versus a 3 year old Naruto holding him. If the Hyuuga incident occurred with Kushina as the jin with Minato as Hokage, the situation would've been handled a lot differently (of course, Kumo may not have even tried if Minato was still Hokage considering A's respect for Minato's strength).
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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by meow69 on Wed May 07, 2014 12:18 pm

Exactly I didn't think about the Jinchuuriki though. Hiruzen I am sure did an evaluation of costs Vs benefits and decided war with Kumo wouldn't be worth the cost. Especially when many of their top shinobi had probably been killed in the Kyuubi attack. Yes they kept the younger Shinobi away from Kyuubi's rampage. Leaving the ones fighting it to be the more experienced shinobi. Manpower can be replaced fast experience can not. Even Kakashi didn't become a major shinobi until he was ANBU for many years. Many of the Jonin Sensei of the Konoha 12 where maybe 14 at the time of the attack. Konoha wasn't ready for war and Hiruzen knew it.
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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by Irielo on Wed May 07, 2014 8:33 pm

Thanks for your very instructive replies people! I think that would be interesting to get some more details about the outcome of the previous wars and their influence on the balance of powers between the lands and the villages. Onoki once complained about Kumo stating that they secretly developed powerful Jutsus. There is also fact that they had two Jinchuurikis and one of them getting well along with his Bijuu (Bee) like Yamasaki Akaiko mentioned.

Kumo also had in its possession some interesting stuffs related to the So6P. Anyway, I think this village was very good at kidnapping people of other villages because they had something special: Kushina (Uzumaki blood + Kyyubi's Jin), Hinata (Byakugan). Although they failed in their attempt of kidnapping those two, I am pretty sure they might have succeeded elsewhere which could explain Onoki's statement as well.

For sure, kidnapping might be something usual in the Shinobi World but it seems that Kumo was very good at it and was using this way of fighting to increase its power.

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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by Twin Steps on Thu May 08, 2014 3:08 am

I personally think it's because Hiruzen was a wuss
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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by Irielo on Thu May 08, 2014 7:48 am

Twin Steps wrote:I personally think it's because Hiruzen was a wuss

That's a bit harsh my friend. When I was talking about this issue with the Cloud and the Leaf and the Hyuugas, I did not want to put the responsibility on Hiruzen solely. Where was the council at that time? Where were Homura, Koharu and even Danzo to help?

Like meow69 mentioned it, this happened 3 years after Konoha had been attacked by Kyuubi. Don't forget that Hiruzen had to bare the deaths of friends and most important, of his wife... I'm pretty sure Biwako was a pillar in Hiruzen's life. Given the way she lectured Kushina on the way to the place she was going to give birth + how she lectured Minato, the Hokage at that time, when the latter was freaking out completely when Kushina was giving birth, showed that Biwako had a strong personality.

I'm sure before her death, she was a precious advisor and a big support to Hiruzen. So, it was quite courageous from him to take back the Hokage's seat after what happened. However, instead of thinking of a successor, Konoha "lazily" relied on the old man. They could have looked for another Hokage during these 3 years but for some reasons it did not happen. They could have even found someone to replace him inside the Uchiha Clan. If it happened this way, that would have for sure calmed their frustrations down and things like the clan's massacre would have been avoided.

All in all, I just wanted to say that the way things were dealt, with Kumo and Hiashi/Hizashi, was a collective failure of Konoha and not only Hiruzen's one.


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Re: Some diplomatic issues to talk about...

Post by racefan1992 on Thu May 08, 2014 8:27 am

I wouldn't say Old Man 3rd was a wuss.

Minato and Old Man 3rd weren't strict enough like the 1st or 2nd were (i think the 3rd and 4th admitted it). 1st and 2nd were strict but had some flexibility.

Anyone who became Hokage isn't a wuss, not by a long shot.
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