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Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

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Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Twin Steps on Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:19 am


People always underestimate hinata’s childhood. They act like her life was filled with happiness or something. Just because her family is alive, just because she’s not a jinchuriki, that doesn’t mean her life is suddenly all sunshine and rainbows.

She had it rough herself, she’ll clearly an introvert to begin with, and introverts tend to stay away from people and find difficulty in bonding or expressing themselves with others. sasuke is clearly in the same boat as hinata in this regard. In fact, Hinata is much like naruto and sasuke, in that none of them had any real friends until they were assigned a genin team. Because of their pasts, all three found it very difficult to make friends.

I’d know, I am an introvert. Making friends is hard fucking work. And this alone should be valid enough of a reason to let her off the hook…. In any case, its more likely than not her mother is dead too. Think about it, Hinata looks and acts nothing like her father, she doesn’t have brown hair nor is she cold and stern like he is, that’s hanabi. So it’s logical to assume her blue hair and gentle personality are from her mother. Assuming that her mother was a gentle woman, how on earth would it make any sense for her to sit around and watch as her daughter is treated like trash? Simple, she wouldn’t… This is why I think it’s very obvious hinata’s mother is dead. However, I’d like to also add this: we know fugaku was stern and strict towards sasuke, always comparing him to itachi, which made sasuke feel bad about himself. But then mikoto, his mother, would lift his spirit by telling him how his father did in fact care for him. I thibk hinata’s case is similar to this.

Hiashi was stern and strict towards Hinata, always comparing her to hanabi, which made Hinata feel bad about herself. At this point, where is Hinata’s gentle and kind mother to lift her spirits up? Well, she really can’t do it, since she’s not around.

Speaking of Hiashi, he was the leader of one of konoha’s best clans, and he basically calls her a waste of time, that sure is something. Hell, hiashi went as far as to say he wouldn’t care if Hinata DIED in a mission, AND SHE HEARD THAT! How can anyone possibly believe she wasn’t crushed at hearing such things? Then there’s Neji, who gives her shit for being a main branch member, the same person she respects and cares enough for to even call him “brother” …..all this while she’s like 10?

And because of all this, she has low self-esteem, add this to her natural shyness, and its pretty clear why she was a loner without any friends: Because she thought that no one would want to lower themselves to the same level of someone like her, someone who was a “failure”

More likely than not, her relation with hanabi is also pretty rough, given how the two are seemingly competing over who will become the heiress. Not to mention hiashi is constantly comparing their strengths with each other, meaning the two would be trying to out do each other.

And it has never been shown that any other hyuga member ever reached a hand out for hinata to hold on to, and why would they? Her own father and the leader of the clan didn’t give two shits for her, so why would a lesser hyuga with little family connection to her do so? Think about it; did mikoto look after naruto despite being kushina’s friend? Did kakashi look after naruro despite being minato’s student? Did Jiraiya look after Naruto despite being his god father? No, no, no. So it’s obvious, not only by this, but also hinata’s lack of self confidence, that no one in her clan cared or acknowledged her. She was alone in her clan, no one was there for her.

And with her family treating her like shit, her only ray of sunlight is a little boy who has it just as bad as she does, yet he refuses to let it stop him from moving forward. And yet, even with that, its still inappropriate that Hinata would love him the way she does?

The best part about this is is that Hinata has every right to hate her entire clan, hiashi and Neji included, for what they did to her, and yet she is still caring and loving towards everyone, never using her past like a sob story to have people sympathize with her.

Honestly, I don’t know about you, but being shunned by your family would be worst than being shunned by strangers.

In any case, I don’t see people giving Naruto shit for not approaching sasuke early. But that’s okay, Naruto was just too shy/insecure to confront him. Iz oka haha
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by racefan1992 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:09 pm

I agree. Hinata didn't have it easy.

Orihime from Bleach is the same way (i really don't need too make an essay about her childhood and past but it is about as bad if not worse).

Hinata not being "allowed" too love Naruto is because a certain ship is threatened by it.

There is double standard out there in reguards too Hinata, she had it rough but so did Naruto, Saskue and Garra and you do not hear them being throw under the bus because of their past.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by senjusana on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:16 pm

Hands down Hinata had the worst childhood comparing to all other female characters in the manga!
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:52 pm

The thing is that Hinata is not the only character who is victim of hatred. Of course, as Hinata fans, it pisses us off to see the amount of bashing and insults she gets but it is really sad to see that Sakura is also victim of the same thing, very often, because of being part of the rival pairing...

Anyway, I think Hiashi really lacked some comprehension towards his daughter because he had to endure himself this pressure of being the Hyuuga heir. The fact that Hizashi was his twin also complicated things imo. So, Hiashi might have thought that a hard/strict way was the best to train his daughter and I don't think he realized how harmful it was to Hinata actually.

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Bubbles on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:17 pm

I'm hoping Hiashi and Hinata have made up, but as strict as he felt he might have had to be, saying something as harsh as not caring if his own little girl died is not just strict, it's really harsh and downright cruel. I'm going with Hinata's mother is dead because otherwise, I can't respect her as a mother (anymore than I could respect Hiashi as a father) to let her husband say that about Hinata.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:30 pm

^Hiashi is still from the "old school" if you get what I mean. To kill or to get killed is something very present in the Shinobi World. To Hiashi, Hinata was so weak, that he could not imagine her surviving in this world, especially as the Hyuuga heiress. His attitude towards her was cruel but what happened to his brother was also very cruel and unfair...

I don't think he realize the psychological damages he did to Hinata, who is from another generation and who has her own sensibility. And I would not judge Hinata's mother hastily even though she still could be alive.

Anyway, if she were not alive, that could also explain the lack of softness in Hiashi's ways...

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Twin Steps on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:28 am

Sometimes I think the reason Hiashi wants Hinata to be so strong is because he probably blames her fo Hizashi's death. I dunno....but that's just how it seems like to me, like her being kidnapped was her fault or something...
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by NaruHina <3 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:09 am

He can't blame her for something she had no control over, Hinata was very young and was sleeping when the Cloud ninja took her. Hiashi took it upon himself to kill the guy, I mean he didn't have a choice... lol.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:53 am

Twin Steps wrote:Sometimes I think the reason Hiashi wants Hinata to be so strong is because he probably blames her fo Hizashi's death. I dunno....but that's just how it seems like to me, like her being kidnapped was her fault or something...

That's a good thought because I think Hiashi felt guilty when his brother had to sacrifice himself instead of him and that happened after Hinata has been kidnapped... And the connexion between twins is something very special too...The rest of my post will be put in spoiler-tags because of some off-topics.

Spoiler:
This is something I can't understand until now. Why did it have to happen this way? Ok, for plot purposes... but the Cloud set the fire: they kidnapped Hinata, Hiashi's action was thus justified. But Konoha and the Hyuuga clan had to pay the price because Hiashi killed the guy who tried to kidnap his daughter. So, Konoha wanted to avoid conflicts and accepted this unfair deal...

However, when the Sand and the Sound tried to destroy Konoha, some heads should have fallen. Take Baki of the Sand for instance, he killed Hayate just after plotting with Kabuto (ch 92). What happened to him? NOTHING! Yes, the Sand was an ally but even though they got fooled by Orochimaru, nothing happened to them. So, Konoha accepted to bow in front of the Cloud in the Hyuuga case and in Hayate's case, they acted softly, too softly imo.

I guess this has something to do with diplomatic matters. All in all I still can't accept Hizashi's death in this unfair manner although it was a way for him to free himself...

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Starlight on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:23 am

I got a feeling that I've seen this before on another naruhina thread but anyways good assay
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by racefan1992 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:39 am

Twin Steps wrote:Sometimes I think the reason Hiashi wants Hinata to be so strong is because he probably blames her fo Hizashi's death. I dunno....but that's just how it seems like to me, like her being kidnapped was her fault or something...

I highly doubt that would be the case but if so. Hiashi would be piece of garbage for even thinking along those lines.

Hinata was the kidnapie and Hiashi killed the kidnapper. If anything, he should blame himself. But then again he had no choice in the matter.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Bubbles on Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:23 pm

The cloud should be blamed. They signed into a false treaty in order to steal the byakugan. When it went south, they blamed Konoha. If Hiashi blamed Hinata for his twins death I would hate him. Hasn't the poor girl been blamed enough for other peoples troubles? She was already the target of Neji's ire by him blaming her for his shit life, and tried to kill her.

If her father felt the same...Regardless of the old generation Hiashi came from, it's still nothing less than cruel that he said that about his own daughter. Worse, he didn't even acknowledge her hard work and dedication, all he saw was failure. At least with Fugaku, although he was strict on Sasuke, we know that at the end of the day, all he talked about was Sasuke positively and Sasuke ended up hearing about this. Hinata never got that luxury either.

Hiashi calling her weak and bsically useless. Giving her position to someone younger, and if I'm correct, that's quite an embarrasment to get your position taken by your younger sibling. Instead of trying to find different ways to help Hinata overcome her insecurities and fears, he took the easy way out and chucked her aside, not caring if she died, and took on an easier child to train, Hanabi.

If her mother stood there and watched all of this, I stand by what I said before. Hinata ended up having to find the inner strength from someone not her father at a young age because he was too busy being overcritical of her weaknesses instead of trying to approach her in a way that plays to her strengths and using different tactics. Nothing to me excuses his past behavior, and I just hope they have made peace.

This is why I want to see more on the clan because Kishi can't just drop that story on us with all these questions and just end the story with that question open. Like it doesn't matter what her father said or thought about her before.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by racefan1992 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:42 pm

^

The Naruto wiki (not very reliable but whatever) said after the Chunin Exams Hinata, Neji and her father become closer as a family. But does that really matter? Matter of point of view really.

Spoiler:
I'm with you Bubbles, there are open questions about what happened but based Kishis track record. Not-going-too-happen. Been Uchiha clan 24/7/365 until the end of time. Another Youtuber has brought it up.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:53 pm

Trying to see the whole thing, the Hyuuga clan itself has cruel traditions like the caged bird seal which gives a part of the family power and authority over the other one. These radicals things existing inside this clan are closely related to the protection of the Byakugan and its secrets.

Someone having the Byakugan and coming from the main family could always become the "prey" of people who would try to get those eyes. That's why, I think to the Hyuuga clan, strength is a must, either as main or branch member. To Hiashi, Hinata was not strong enough before and I think he therefore could not picture himself how she would survive in this cruel Shinobi world...

However, no matter what the reasons he had, he did not realize, imo, that he was hurting her deep in her emotions and soul... Hiashi was ready to die after what happened during the issue with the Cloud (ch 105) but the elders and Hizashi were opposed to that. Hiashi was ready to assume his responsibility but because the protection of the Byakugan was once again the most important thing, his twin had to go and that was cruel too...

So, Hiashi saved Hinata because she is his daughter, the Hyuuga heiress and because of the Byakugan. I think Hiashi felt then guilty when Hizashi had to die in his place and unfortunately for Hinata, she did not meet her father's expectations afterwards. As heiress of the clan, as someone who has been saved, to Hiashi she did not show that she deserved all of that. That's why he became indifferent to her.

But I think things have changed now.

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Bubbles on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:45 pm

Yeah I get all of that. Though fact still remains that he saw nothing in her. Even though she had the hard work going for her, he did not notice. He only saw her gentle nature and her sisters apparently tougher one. Couple that with little sister  Hanabi beating her and you have him completely not understanding his daughter and thinking she is just weak and incapable period.

If his tactic wasn't working, he should have tried a different approach. He has to be a father as well as a leader, not just one or the other. He knows what it takes to survive, but not everyone learns the same way. He needed more than a firm hand, he needed a more understanding approach. He didn't understand her at all and therefore tossed her away. Didn't bother to try and see any worth in her.

Years of her being in his life and Kurenai ends up knowing her better than her own father. That tells me something right there. Hiashi failed to see that despite her failing, she worked her butt off and needed time to blossom. She lacked self confidence, but its no wonder when all she got was negativity. If he had encouraged her to keep pushing instead of feeling like she's just a big disappointment, she might have gained confidence in herself. Heck, even though Hinata lost her fight with Neji, she felt she had come to like herself a bit more and not want to run away.

And this was thanks to Naruto cheering her on and believing in her despite it all. It was thanks to Naruto telling her she was strong despite her losing to Pain that rose her confidence when she called herself useless in her mind again. Hiashi's behavior very likely led to her having such low estreem.

It's one thing for a bunch of strangers to shun you and treat you like that, but when your own father does it? I just feel like he wasn't a good father to her in that regard. That he cared so much about the clan and his way that he forgot Hinata is not just some heiress, but his daughter who needed actual encouragment and support. Being subjected to knowing you will lead an entire clan is not easy on everybody and some need help to rise to the occasion.

But Hiashi did not believe in her, so he turned to Hanabi. I want to see some tying up of this plotpoint, I feel it needs addressing. Does Hiashi still feel he was right or is he remorseful at all for the way he treated her? I want to know.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:57 pm

That's the thing: I think Hiashi and the Hyuuga clan are used to be tough people and to act tough. Hinata's gentle nature was maybe something "new" to Hiashi who did not know how to deal with that. He, as the clan heir, had also to go through the pressure of having the responsibility of the whole clan on his shoulders and he could not adapt the right pedagogy for Hinata's gentle nature.

And he id not even imagine how terrible the consequences of his attitude towards his daughter would have in her life. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend Hiashi but only trying to understand all the parties involved...

Indeed Bubbles, the things you are pointing out need to be addressed imo as well.

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by racefan1992 on Thu May 01, 2014 4:33 am

@Bubbles brings up an interesting point. Hinatas sensei knows her better then her own father does and know what buttons (lack of a better term) too push. Even Naruto knows her better then her own father does and knows how too bring her up (well he has been there, done that).

For some people, once they lose confidence in themselves they never get it back. Hiashis way of doing things about put Hinata out of the ninja world period.

Hinata had: drive, determination, heart and courage. Sadly his paradigm only saw one thing: Failure. Hinata failed because he contributed too the failure and he didn't even realize it. Ignorence of your own doing too someone else is bliss.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Thu May 01, 2014 12:50 pm

Oh yay, more Hiashi and/or Hyuugas are evil stuff. This will ramble because I'm addressing points I've seen as I remember them regardless of the order they were posted or who posted it. ;p

Personally, I don't think Hinata's personality was "new" because it's not her personality that is the problem nor ever was the problem. Hiashi was only concerned with Hinata's lack of performance--not her nature/personality.

I'm going to disagree on Kurenai knowing Hinata better than Hiashi. There's nothing in the manga that shows that at all. Kurenai didn't know Hinata needed time, which is not what Hinata needed actually. Hinata needed confidence in herself. To get that confidence boost, Hinata needed encouragement from someone she truly considered dear to her. If Kurenai really knew what Hinata needed, then Kurenai would've had Hinata interacting with Naruto more often as the main reason Hinata pushed herself (surprising everyone, including Kurenai--which is another reason I completely disagree with portrayals that have Kurenai supposedly understanding Hinata so much) was due to Naruto's presence and direct encouragement OR she would've pushed Hiashi more to acknowledge Hinata (which it does not seem she did either, but I'm willing to acknowledge it's possible though it's never been shown). The only reason I don't include Neji (who also could've done it) is due to the fact that at the time there's no way anyone other than possibly Hiashi could've gotten through to Neji and even Hiashi still would've needed "the right moment" (good job Naruto for creating it) or else Neji wouldn't have reacted well to the truth involving Hizashi regardless. Kurenai only acknowledged that Hinata worked hard and still failed. It was the failing part that caused Hiashi to turn to Hanabi over Hinata because it doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't get the results that are desired when it counts.

The fact that if Kurenai gave Hinata any encouragement (which again she was never shown doing in the manga either so I'll admit that I personally don't think she ever did) didn't cause any noticeable changes causes me to believe that they're not that close or else I think it would've worked (her memory of Hinata hearing that she's not needed would've been a great time to be encouraging but it wasn't done--or if it was done but not shown, then it didn't have any effect, which I can't see not working if Kurenai did it--one of the reasons why I tend to think she wasn't really encouraging). There has to be some closeness due to Kurenai being her teacher, but I don't see Kurenai superceding Hiashi, Neji, or Naruto for Hinata (not even sure if she's above Shino or Kiba--and neither of those two are the encouraging type either). The only reason I don't include Hanabi is that we've never seen the two interact so I'm not going to use my opinions on their potential relationship cloud what might be shown for it in the manga. Of course, considering what we've seen of Kurenai, she's not an encouraging type. In fact, Kurenai's behavior/attitudes (the little we've seen of hers is very strict and demanding) is pretty similar to Hiashi's (the little we've seen of his) in the manga.

I also disagree that Hiashi is supposed to be a father and a clan leader. That's ignoring the reality of the Naruto world. While a bit off-topic, I think this will help bring about my overall point. The idea (though not supported by the current Naruto world) that Hiashi is supposed to be a father and a clan leader is the same reasoning that causes some people to hate Minato for choosing to make Naruto a jinchuuriki when he could've let Kushina re-seal Kurama and then raise Naruto on his own (and now based on other things, possibly with Kushina alive). The reason for the hate is due to Minato choosing to put Konoha/world over the idea of being a father. Hiashi has only done the exact same thing (though when he did try to put something ahead of being a clan leader--preventing his brother from dying--he was overruled by the system that said family is secondary): put family behind other things that potentially affect a lot of people.

Sure, it might be nice to be "both," but that's not the Naruto world. The closest usage of the Naruto world that is similar was the Fugaku mention but even that isn't actually applicable. Fugaku never said anything nice to Sasuke directly until Sasuke succeeded (and Itachi seemed "weird" at the same time or else he probably would've still compared Sasuke negatively to Itachi). Sure, Mikoto said that he said nice things about Sasuke to her, but what's to say that Hiashi didn't do the same to anyone else himself? Can't prove it one way or the other, but if you're going to discuss "clan leader to their children" aspects, you can't use those that aren't the "clan leader" into it and be fair (especially as you'll always get more details and explicitly written sides to things dealing with Sasuke as a main character than Hinata as a secondary character). The only difference between Fugaku and Hiashi when it comes to Sasuke and Hinata is that one was dealing with their second child and the other was dealing with their firstborn (outside again that Sasuke did finally succeed in something whereas Hinata didn't).

Now, one can argue that the Naruto world is not a good place, and you'd be correct--especially since both Naruto and Sasuke are trying to change their world for the better. However, expecting characters that aren't going to go against the established norms (and 95% of the Naruto characters aren't going to do things against the norm especially after they get knocked down after trying to do so, which is true for Hiashi) to be different than what they are isn't completely fair either.

As for the idea that the Hyuugas became closer after the Chuunin exams, I'm sure they did as that is what Kishimoto was trying to show in the last chapter of part 1. Of course, Hinata had finally began to show that she might be able to perform finally during the Chuunin exams (and has actually been demonstrating it for Hiashi's direct viewing in the war arc). So, that's not really all that surprising considering it was Hinata's inability to perform up to standard that was problem and nothing else.

As for those who really do compare "worse childhoods," I think that's not necessary. At the end of the day, pain is pain and how "bad" something happens to be has a lot to do with our own personal biases.

I can't think of anything else I saw at the moment so I hope this post made some sense despite me going all over the place.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Batokusanagi on Thu May 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:I'm going to disagree on Kurenai knowing Hinata better than Hiashi.
How can you disagree with that? Hell, even Lee seemed to know Hinata better than Hiashi. What exactly did Hiashi know about Hinata that would lead you to think this. You don't mention it in you comment. At least Kurenai knew that Hinata had in her to be strong and that she trained a lot, but that her lack of self-confidence led her to fail in missions. Hiashi just called her useless and put someone else in charge of training her.
When people say that Kurenai was like a mother to Hinata, I don't agree, but that he knew her better than her deadbeat dad, I think, is pretty clear.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Thu May 01, 2014 4:34 pm

The only things Hiashi has ever said about Hinata are that her footwork needs work (that was true and made even more "official" when it was Hinata's footwork that was preventing her from completing the 64 Palms due to her hesitating--the issue of her confidence messing up her skills coming back to play though which makes me wonder if bad footwork helped cause the confidence issues in the first place that got compounded over the years, particularly by being replaced as heir), that Hanabi is better than her (the only thing we've never seen directly and unfortunately can only take Hiashi's word), and that he's okay with her becoming a genin (which ironically brings potential implications that I'm curious about and hope Kishimoto does mention before the story ends--will mention my theory later in this post).

If the only things that Hiashi had a problem with when it comes to Hinata are her footwork and that Hanabi performed better than her (when Hanabi is clearly fighting/training hard), Hiashi doesn't think that Hinata isn't a hardworker. Hiashi knows she works hard as it's something clearly implied by the fact that he doesn't say that Hinata isn't a hardworker. Hiashi also knows that Hinata fails constantly. Kurenai said both of those two things: Hinata works hard but fails. The two have the same perspective on that front, which is why I don't see Kurenai as having some insight that Hiashi didn't have (unless learning that Hinata is interested in Naruto--which Kurenai only figured out at the Chuunin exam preliminaries--gets to count). The only character that seemed to have insight others didn't have on Hinata is Naruto (of course Naruto was oblivious to social stuff to balance out his ability to see Hinata's potential).

Hiashi didn't put someone else in charge of training Hinata at all, unless you mean the academy and have a similar theory to mine. Kurenai wasn't put in charge of Hinata due to Hiashi though. Hinata, as a graduating student in the academy, was assigned to Team 8. That's the only reason Kurenai is even in Hinata's life at all. Hiashi just chose not to train Hinata because he chose Hanabi to be the next leader of the clan. As per the traditions of the Hyuuga Clan, the clan leader is only supposed to train one person to be the next leader. Hiashi was originally training Hinata to be that person. However, once Hanabi was old enough to also be trained, clearly Hanabi impressed Hiashi more than Hinata did so he chose Hanabi over Hinata. That's it. The only way the idea that Hiashi chose to have someone train Hinata can be accurate is if it turns out that Hanabi did not attend the academy. If the idea that the next clan leader never attends the academy due to being trained by the current head of the clan is true (which one of many things I'm curious about with the Hyuuga clan and have been ever since Hiashi's comment to Kurenai actually and made even more interesting to me when I saw through the databooks that Hizashi was a Jonin & Hiashi has no ranking, but Fugaku and others that are clan leaders are ranked as Jonin; so I'm curious if Hiashi even went to the academy), then yeah Hiashi turned over Hinata's training to the village so that she could still become a ninja and helpful to the village but not the next leader of the Hyuuga clan. Personally, I think that the whole Hanabi being gone with Hiashi during the Pain arc helps the theory, though I'm prepared for this theory to go down in flames as there are other potential explanations for many things.

The only thing Hiashi has ever been shown doing/saying that could be considered cold is the fact that he said to Kurenai that Hinata isn't considered important to the clan (of course it doesn't help that it's been twisted to be "Hinata was disowned" a lot of times--if she was disowned, she wouldn't live in the Hyuuga compound nor still be part of the main branch which caused Neji to continue to dislike her back then for that last reason). What's ignored is that Hiashi said that in response to Kurenai's claim that Hinata is supposed to be heir and Hiashi was correcting Kurenai's perception of the situation (of course, this does support the idea that heir goes to the academy but isn't allowed to become a genin--which is another theory of mine). Yeah, it stinks that Hinata clearly overheard it too but that phrasing wasn't said directly to Hinata. I can't prove Hiashi never said anything that mean to Hinata to her face, but no one can prove that Hiashi did say something that mean to Hinata to her face either.

I just think it requires taking pretty much one scene a bit out of context to the exclusion of all other evidence to the contrary to make Hiashi out as someone who he really isn't. There's a lot more to him than he's sometimes given credit for. But he's most definitely a clan leader before a father... until Hinata finally started showing promise because it became easier to be "both."

P.S. Hiashi isn't a deadbeat dad. Deadbeat dad's don't provide food, clothing, shelter, etc. to their children. Hiashi did all of that for Hinata, even when he was saying that she's unnecessary to the clan. ;P
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Bubbles on Thu May 01, 2014 10:45 pm

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:
I'm going to disagree on Kurenai knowing Hinata better than Hiashi. There's nothing in the manga that shows that at all. Kurenai didn't know Hinata needed time, which is not what Hinata needed actually. Hinata needed confidence in herself. To get that confidence boost, Hinata needed encouragement from someone she truly considered dear to her.

I'm not saying she had this super close bond with Hinata (since it's never shown because Team 8 is so neglected so who knows), but she already understands Hinata better than Hiashi by seeing Hinata's potential and her tendency to work hard. Hiashi did not see that, all he saw was failure. This is what I mean by Kurenai, someone who just walked into her life, already knew something important about her, that her father did not, and upon knowing this, she knew something at the core of Hinata's character. It was this hard work that helped lead her to where she is now.

Hinata needed confidence, but her lack of self-confidence made her growth lessen. But this is another thing. Why does Hinata have such low self confidence? Could it perhaps be because she had no one to encourage her? You said she needed someone who she considered dear to her in order to feel encouragement. Tell me why that couldn't have been her own father?

This is what I mean. Hiashi was also a father, not just a clan leader, and unlike Sasuke, who at the time had both parents, (one to push him, and another to show him why and tell him that his father speaks well of him), Hinata clearly did not have that. She was pushed hard, failed and got lower esteem. Then her father left her to Kurenai without a care, shattering it. It got to the point where she didn't feel she was worth anything, and her father calling her a "loser" who is below her younger sibling does not help. I do not see how being a clan leader means forgoing trying to be a father or speaking in such a way about your own kid. He didn't have (I presume) a wife to help balance out the stress of working to be a clan leader. It was just him.


If Kurenai really knew what Hinata needed, then Kurenai would've had Hinata interacting with Naruto more often as the main reason Hinata pushed herself (surprising everyone, including Kurenai--which is another reason I completely disagree with portrayals that have Kurenai supposedly understanding Hinata so much) was due to Naruto's presence and direct encouragement OR she would've pushed Hiashi more to acknowledge Hinata (which it does not seem she did either, but I'm willing to acknowledge it's possible though it's never been shown).

I'd say it would have been a good idea, but again, I never did say she's an expert on Hinata or her needs, just that she understood something about Hinata's core character and her dad did not.

As for Kurenai pushing Hiashi, why should Kurenai, a woman who barely knew Hinata at the time, have to push Hinata's own father to acknowledge his daughter? Hiashi is the one who should have been pushing himself to do this. He is the parent, he is the one who needed to help Hinata to be clan leader, not Kurenai, he should have been aiming to try to understand her in order to work with her better. He sees Hinata is afraid, so what did he do to ebb that worry? From what resulted in Hinata, I'd say nothing of significance.

With Neji, he even did something good for her as he was the one who got her to get down the 64 palms by teaching her the trick to the 64 palms: to step forward without fear. I think If Hiashi had been more helpful like Neji, more encouraging and believing in her like Naruto, she would have had no reason to gain it from other sources.


Kurenai only acknowledged that Hinata worked hard and still failed. It was the failing part that caused Hiashi to turn to Hanabi over Hinata because it doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't get the results that are desired when it counts.

That leads me to believe that Kurenai understood Hinata better in some ways. Kurenai acknowledged something big about Hinata's character in the short amount of time she was around her, than her own father did being around her entire life. And it was because he did not see it and only saw her failure that caused this. About Hinata's hard work not mattering, I could say the same thing about Hiashi's technique. It doesn't matter how hard you push if you don't try to solve the bigger issue. She failed despite working hard because of her low self-confidence, which stemmed from her fears, resulting in lack of real progress.

And you know what? Naruto failed a lot despite working hard. But he got up and kept trying. Hinata saw this. She saw that despite having nobody there to encourage him (much like herself) that he kept believing in himself (unlike her) and that's what led her to admire him. His desire to be acknowledged and praised for what he did is something that they share. Unlike Naruto, she stopped believing in herself because she had nobody there to encourage her.

This is what I feel Hiashi should have done. As her father, I feel he should have encouraged her, he should have tried to get to the core of what was the matter. I can't just say "it must have happened off screen" because I think there is evidence against that. If she did indeed get this kind of positive response, why did her confidence continued to remain so low and why did she continue to think so terribly of herself all the time?)

Hinata encouraged Naruto after he expressed what? That he was frustrated from always failing. He was able to open up to her. Hinata isn't as open, especially under her fathers strict gaze and as her father who is around her a lot, he would know this. As the one mentoring her to be leader someday, I feel he should have helped Hinata gain her confidence. She used to always cry and give up. Hiashi must have seen this. Must have seen her struggle with this self-confidence and feeling down on herself because she felt she couldn't do it. But it seems that he just let her and continued to get frustrated instead of trying to help her change this attitude around.


I also disagree that Hiashi is supposed to be a father and a clan leader. That's ignoring the reality of the Naruto world. While a bit off-topic, I think this will help bring about my overall point. The idea (though not supported by the current Naruto world) that Hiashi is supposed to be a father and a clan leader is the same reasoning that causes some people to hate Minato for choosing to make Naruto a jinchuuriki when he could've let Kushina re-seal Kurama and then raise Naruto on his own (and now based on other things, possibly with Kushina alive).

The reason for the hate is due to Minato choosing to put Konoha/world over the idea of being a father. Hiashi has only done the exact same thing (though when he did try to put something ahead of being a clan leader--preventing his brother from dying--he was overruled by the system that said family is secondary): put family behind other things that potentially affect a lot of people.

Being a clan leader doesn't mean one cannot be a parent too, and in this case, him being a parent could have helped his clan, not hurt it. Hiashi and Hizashi issue would have hurt the clan because they'd lose a leader. I do not think having a clan leader for a parent means that they can't encourage, give confidence, help still fears and push their child to be better, not just push and push and then get frustrated when that doesn't work. Fugaku spent all his time with Itachi, so was always awkward with Sasuke, but with Hinata and Hiashi it was the other way around. Hiashi had plenty of time to be around Hinata and try to understand her, and thus understand her troubles and help soothe them, but I feel that from what we have seen, he did not.

All the girl needed was encouragement and acknowledgment of what she did and tried to do. She didn't need her father to die for her or anything, I don't think that's a lot to ask. This is why I say Kurenai understands her better (in that department at least). She knew Hinata had the potential to suceed through working hard, but her father wasn't giving her what she needed in order to do so. He pushed her, but clearly did not offer anything positive for her to work off of.


Sure, it might be nice to be "both," but that's not the Naruto world. The closest usage of the Naruto world that is similar was the Fugaku mention but even that isn't actually applicable. Fugaku never said anything nice to Sasuke directly until Sasuke succeeded (and Itachi seemed "weird" at the same time or else he probably would've still compared Sasuke negatively to Itachi). Sure, Mikoto said that he said nice things about Sasuke to her, but what's to say that Hiashi didn't do the same to anyone else himself? Can't prove it one way or the other, but if you're going to discuss "clan leader to their children" aspects, you can't use those that aren't the "clan leader" into it and be fair (especially as you'll always get more details and explicitly written sides to things dealing with Sasuke as a main character than Hinata as a secondary character).

No he didn't, but how is that not applicable? Sasuke came home distraught about his father. Mikoto encouraged otherwise by letting him know that Sasuke was all Fugaku spoke about at night and explained to him why Fugaku paid more attention to Itachi. (because Itachi is eldest and his job is to be a leader and whatnot).

I can't say for sure, that Hiashi never did the same, only that it never reached Hinata's ears. But personally, I find it hard to believe that he did, because if that was the case and he did see such positives in her, I feel he wouldn't have (or shouldn't have) tossed her aside and should have told her.

Now, one can argue that the Naruto world is not a good place, and you'd be correct--especially since both Naruto and Sasuke are trying to change their world for the better. However, expecting characters that aren't going to go against the established norms (and 95% of the Naruto characters aren't going to do things against the norm especially after they get knocked down after trying to do so, which is true for Hiashi) to be different than what they are isn't completely fair either.

I'm sorry but, Hiashi not being a good father in that regard doesn't get excused because ninja world sucks. Hiashi attempting to go against the norm was him going against his clans established guidelines of Main and Branch. But I don't think it's in the clan law to not try and be a good father as well as a clan leader. All I think that can be argued really is that her father wasn't perceptive of her at all and that's what helped lead to this.

Overall, I don't hate Hiashi. I hate how he apparently handled the situation and the way he treated Hinata, but if everything's good with them now, I forgive all that. I just want some on panel closure. I know Hinata isn't main character, but you know what, Gaara got closure (finding out the truth of his mother from his dad and whatnot), so I don't think it's too much to ask to see Hinata get the same, what with her father showing remorse for his past decisions and some more Hyuga time with daughter-father time would be nice.


Last edited by Bubbles on Fri May 02, 2014 12:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Thu May 01, 2014 10:54 pm

@ Yamasaki Akaiko Although I agree with most of your points, I don't think that anyone here meant that Hiyashi/ the Hyuugas are "evil". The protection of the Byakugan is the main reason why they had to develop such harsh ways inside their clan and this might have influenced the whole mindset regarding the relationship between the members and the training of the clan heirs for instance.

What I think shocked a lot of people are Hiashi's words to Kurenai about his daughter. No matter if Hinata were there or not, these words coming from the mouth of a father were too harsh despite the fact that Hiashi was talking as clan leader at that time. If the latter decided to privilege his second daughter because he judged her better for the job, I don't really see where is the problem but going to the extent of saying that he was not interested anymore with what could happen to Hinata, her dying or not, was too much imo. And that just because her footwork was not good enough?

Yes, that's what has been shown in the manga and like you wrote, the difference with Sasuke for instance is that we as readers had more insight in his life than in Hinata's one because he is a main character. I admit that the personality thing is an assumption but I don't think it's completely far-fetched. To be leader of such a clan, I guess one has to make sometimes cold decisions and act tough. A gentle nature combined to a lack of confidence could therefore be seen as an handicap which could have disastrous consequences for the whole clan.

Take chapter 614 for instance, Naruto got impressed by Neji's genius and Hiashi just lectured him, asking him to focus on the fight. He knew how critical the situation was and knew that people would died and he reminded that to Naruto.

Letting personal feelings or traits of the personality interfering in matters which Hiashi considers as vital for the whole (clan or alliance in the above example), is unthinkable because like you said, the one time he tried to let his personal feelings take over the priorities, the elders and Hizashi showed him that it was not possible.

Another point: yes the last chapter of part 1 showed a kind of improvement between Neji, Hiashi and Hinata but there again, one can notice something. Ok, Neji was a genius and Hiashi decided to train him... but it could have been an opportunity to train Hinata too. Hinata was shown as the "good woman" bringing tea to the men after their training. To be honest, Hiashi could have let her train with them. That would have for sure helped her to improve her skills. Although it could have happened off-panel, I don't have the feeling it did. To me, Hinata had to work hard alone having for motivation Naruto's example and his Nindo she'd adopted.

Anyway, I would like to read your theories about the Hyuuga clan. I'm sure they are very interesting.


Last edited by Irielo on Fri May 02, 2014 1:13 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : correcting a spelling error + added something)

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by racefan1992 on Fri May 02, 2014 7:33 am

I think @Bubbles @Batokusanagi pretty much nailed it.
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Irielo on Fri May 02, 2014 8:29 am

I think like Yamasaki Akaiko's stated that there is more to discover in Hiashi's attitude. Although it's not going to pleased everyone here, I am trying to be neutral on this one.

To me, since the issue with the Cloud and the sacrifice of Hizashi, Hiashi did not want to let his personal feelings interfering with his role as clan leader anymore. Unfortunately, by doing so, his role as clan leader took over his personal feelings leading to what happened with Hinata. In other words, he probably "forgot" that he was also a father and that he could have dealt with some issues differently, for instance with Hinata.

To make it simple, Hiashi might be a good clan leader but he failed as father regarding Hinata. The question now is to know what is more important? Personal feelings? The clan? The village?

I think, like Itachi, Hiashi did a big mistake on personal level: the way Itachi dealt with Sasuke, putting the latter under Genjutsu, triggering his hatred and so on and Hiashi because he stopped to consider how worthy Hinata was because she was not fit for the clan leader's job.

However, both did what they did for something they consider as something higher than themselves and their personal feelings. Itachi did all these horrible things for the village's welfare and I guess Hiashi did that for the clan's welfare as well.

Unfortunately both did not expect the terrible consequences it would have in the lives of Sasuke and Hinata, despite the fact that in Hinata's case she never went to Sasuke's extent.

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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

Post by Bubbles on Fri May 02, 2014 9:45 am

Yeah, maybe there is more to discover, that's why I hope we get it and it's not just passed over. But just like the lack of info we had for Obito before, leaving me incapable of empathising with his actions, for now this is what I think because it's all I have to go off of after all this time and nothing from Hiashi about otherwise.

This is why I want to see what Hiashi thinks of what he did and why. I just don't see what a long running law within the clan for branch to protect main has to do with Hiashi empathising with his daughter. When Hiashi tried to give up his life, he was not only ignoring a law that was in place, but his sacrifice would have left them leaderless and thus would lose strength within the clan as well.

Unless one is trying to argue that losing his brother possibly could have instilled a wall of stone to his emotions that he was either incapable of, or refused to help Hinata in her own personal struggles, or that one believes that he felt that empathising to help her better herself in both skill and spirit would somehow hurt his clan, I'm not really seeing what Hiashi losing Hizashi has to do with it. 
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Re: Regarding Hinata's Childhood & The Hate She Gets

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