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[THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

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[THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Twin Steps on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:38 am

After today's chapter, it's been theorized that Kaguya may have the Byakugan. However, some people have claimed that she can't have it; as her eyes are pure white, and at first glance this may look true.

Spoiler:

However, zooming in and we see;

Spoiler:

That there is in fact a distinction between the iris and the rest of the eye ball.

However, even if this was the case, Kishi has drawn the Byakugan with and without an iris before.

An example would be here, where Hinata is depicted both with and without irises

Spoiler:

Now comes the argument of "who says the eye has to be white?"

To start off with, White symbolizes Death in Japanese culture.

Kaguya was refered to as a Demon by the people of her time

Kaguya also has a rather uncanny and huge similarity with the Shinigami of the Reaper death seal [some people have even theorized that the shinigami may in fact actually be her]

Spoiler:


Finally, going off of Madara and Obito's appearence as the Juubi's jinchuriki

Spoiler:


And we saw how similar Hagoromo's own appearence was to Juubiti, I think it's clear that Kaguya has white hair, white cloths and white skin. So what's left other than having white eyes?

It truly would make her look like a soulless ghost/demon woman; and even the Byakugan's veins would add to the creepy vibe she seems to emit.

Kaguya having the Byakugan would also bring us full circle and would actually make Kakashi's statement from part 1 actually true.

Spoiler:

Indra [Uchiha eyes] came from Hagoromo who came from Kaguya [Hyuga eyes]. So the Uchiha in a way, did in fact come from the Hyuga.

Spoiler:

This picture was seen during Obito & Konan's battle. The picture depicts Tomoes, representing the Uchiha, circles or ripples, representing the Rinnegan, and a Ying-Yang symbol in the middle, representing the Hyuuga. This hint at the Byakugan being related to the Rennigan and Sharingan

Spoiler:

As can be seen, Tobi's mask clearly has all three attributes of the three great Dojutsu. It has the ripples of the Rennigan, the Tomoes of the Sharingan, and is coloured white as is the Byakugan. Now, think of this for a moment. Why wasn’t Tobi’s mask colored orange like all his previous masks were before this one? Why is this the only mask of which he’s worn that bares resemblance to the Dojustsus? Tobi’s mask is one of the largest hints of the three eyes being connected to one another in some way.

The Byakugan, Rennigan and Sharingan are collectively called the Three Great Dojutsu. But why call them the Three GREAT Dojutsu if they're the only ones? Well, simply put, they're not. Kishimoto has shown other DOjutsus throuughout the series.

Deidara's left eye can see through genjutsu and see afar.
Kidomaru's third eye when openind improves his accuracy and let's him see chakra
Gaara's sand eye allows for him to create a floating eye of sand, connecting it to his optic nerves.
Zetsu's "Golden Byakugan" allows for him to record and later replay things he's seen.

So there ARE in fact "lesser" dojutsu; and the reason Byakugan, Sharingan, and Rennigan are called the Great Dojutsus is because they are linked to the Sage's family.

Honestly, I find it absolutely illogical for the Byakugan to not be related to the other Dojutsus in some way, as it would seem completely bizarre for the Byakugan to just be there with no explanation what so ever as to how it came to be.


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Last edited by Irielo on Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Large pictures should be put in spoiler tags.)
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by meow69 on Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:31 am

I wrote something similar in the actual manga discussion thread here is what i think based on what we can see

Not sure if it is 100% confirmed yet but looks like Kaguya had a byakugan. Heres my theory on the origins of both the Sharingan and Rinnegan. Kaguya Born with Byakugan. Eats the fruit and either her Byakugan mutates into Rinnegan as Kaguya had all the Chakra from the fruit inside her or the sage of six paths is born with a Byakugan and it mutates after absorbing the Juubi. Sage of six paths has two children but because of the fact of him absorbing the Juubi neither of his children inherited the Byakugan. Also as neither of his children had the Juubi inside of them neither had a Rinnegan instead with his elder son it mutated into the sharingan. while of course the younger son didn't get it. This would also explain why it takes DNA from both children to get a Rinnegan as only together do they have Both parts of the Mutation from the Juubi. Truly it looks like the Byakugan is the mother of all the other Dojutsu. Just me theorizing could be completely wrong. But it matches what we have seen so far. Now the question is are the Hyuuga aware of all this or atleast some of them. I could see them having something like the Uchiha shrine. Or have the truth only passed from clan leader to clan leader.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:24 am

meow69 wrote:I wrote something similar in the actual manga discussion thread here is what i think based on what we can see

Not sure if it is 100% confirmed yet but looks like Kaguya had a byakugan. Heres my theory on the origins of both the Sharingan and Rinnegan. Kaguya Born with Byakugan. Eats the fruit and either her Byakugan mutates into Rinnegan as Kaguya had all the Chakra from the fruit inside her or the sage of six paths is born with a Byakugan and it mutates after absorbing the Juubi. Sage of six paths has two children but because of the fact of him absorbing the Juubi neither of his children inherited the Byakugan. Also as neither of his children had the Juubi inside of them neither had a Rinnegan instead with his elder son it mutated into the sharingan. while of course the younger son didn't get it. This would also explain why it takes DNA from both children to get a Rinnegan as only together do they have Both parts of the Mutation from the Juubi. Truly it looks like the Byakugan is the mother of all the other Dojutsu. Just me theorizing could be completely wrong. But it matches what we have seen so far. Now the question is are the Hyuuga aware of all this or atleast some of them. I could see them having something like the Uchiha shrine. Or have the truth only passed from clan leader to clan leader.

I find your theory and Twin Steps' one very interesting. I don't know, in case Kaguya had the Byakugan if it did mutate into the Rinnegan when she ate the fruit... I think it would be interesting to know when she ate the fruit: before or after giving birth? If it happened before the birth of her two sons, I'm not sure if her Byakugan did mutate because she has been represented according to Hagoromo's memory with the Byakugan (if its' really the Byakugan). So, I think she ate the fruit and the power of her Byakugan mixed with this large amount of chakra coming from it had for result that her sons got the Rinnegan (still have to know more about Hagoromo's brother).

Another thing, like Twin Steps pointed it out, the fact that the Hyuga clan is considered to be the oldest bloodline of Konoha and that it is a noble clan, I can imagine it is linked to Kaguya who had herself noble origins. Besides that could make somehow sense that she ate the fruit because if she did possess the Byakugan from the start, that means she would have been able to see the amount of chakra or the chakra network inside the fruit and that would have awaken her interest to eat it if you get what I mean...


Last edited by Irielo on Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added something)
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Bubbles on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:03 pm

671 Evil spoilers:
Well, according to Evil spoilers (a reliable source on NF), Kaguya has the byakugan. Now, as it was said on April 1st, there is a possibility of it being a joke. But, there is also the possibility that it isn't. Either way, we should know tonight. I am very excited, I do hope it's true as I've been dying for Hyuga backstory.
  

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Dianahinkle on Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:07 am

I think this explains why Kabuto healed Hinata during the chunnin exams. 
Is Hinata the reincarnation of the princess?
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by racefan1992 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:19 am

^

It would be awsome if she was but i HIGHLY doubt it. Kishi would NEVER use Hinata that way.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:44 am

Tbh, I appreciate that Naruto is not the reincarnation of the S06P but of his son who was a hard worker. Hinata is also a hard worker and I would not really like if she were Kaguya's reincarnation who was clever enough to eat a fruit filled with tremendous powers to become what she was.

However, I think that Kaguya incarnates the mother of the Shinobis or the origin of all these great clans like Senju, Uchiha, Hyuga and Uzumaki... If one of Hagoromo's son (Indra) did get the Sharingan, that would be interesting to know more about Hagoromo's brother. Did the latter have children too? In case yes, that would be possible that one of his child (maybe a daughter, who knows?) inherit the Byakugan... That remains a thought though...

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by meow69 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:06 am

Looks like the Sharingan at least started with Kaguya. We do not know if she was the first with the Byakugan or not. Though it seems she did not have the Rinnegan. Leaving me thinking that The sage of six paths got it when he absorbed the Juubi. Notice that Kaguya has the same eye in the middle of her forehead that the tree had before it was cut down. Meaning she probably got the sharingan from eating the fruit. Now that leaves the question of whether one, both or any of her children inherited her eyes.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Bubbles on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:52 am

Oh god no. Please, I do not want either Hinata or Sakura to be a reincarnation. I want them to be their own people without any slapped on reincarnation/transmitigation.

That being said, I'm happy to know Kaguya having byakugan was the truth. It seems like it was her original eye too, so Byakugan predates Sharingan after all and is the original dojutsu eye. I'm hoping to get more story on the Hyuga and Byakugan, it would be more than enough for Hinata and her clan, she doesn't need to be some goddess on top of it.

Do. not. want.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Dianahinkle on Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:24 pm

^___ I see what you mean about the about Hinata and Sakura but at this point I want Hinata and her clan to mean more so I'm willing to take anything.
If Hinata is a reincarnation that's cool if she's not that's also cool I just want her to have a bigger role.

I just think it's super fishy that Kabuto healed her in the chunnin exams. Just a theory.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Bubbles on Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:57 pm

Dianahinkle wrote:^___ I see what you mean about the about Hinata and Sakura but at this point I want Hinata and her clan to mean more so I'm willing to take anything.
If Hinata is a reincarnation that's cool if she's not that's also cool I just want her to have a bigger role.

I just think it's super fishy that Kabuto healed her in the chunnin exams. Just a theory.


reincarnation:
Honestly, I do understand wanting Hinata to have a bigger role, but I wouldn't want it at the expense of her character. I feel like her being a reincarnation of the most powerful being who ever lived would basically undermine the hardwork theme of Hinata Hyuga. Everything she accomplishes would therefore be on the back of her being a reincarnation of Kaguya, so it would be less of an accomplishment on her own terms and more an expected outcome because she is reincarnated from greatness.

I would hate that because I like that despite her struggles and her doubts that she preserves. That despite her once being ostracized and called weak and a loser, she moves forward and shows that this is not true. By being Kaguya reincarnated, it would never have been true that she was a weak loser not because she had the will and garnered inner strength to accomplish this greatness all her own, but because her destiny as this reincarnation would always have been to become great, thus making Neji right about his whole "destiny" philosophy. In that case, the only thing he would have been wrong about, is Hinata being a loser.

Not to mention technically, if Hinata were Kaguya reincarnated, Hinata would be Naruto's grandmother reincarnated since Naruto has her grandson inside him. 
 
As much as I love Hinata, she is a secondary character, I don't really expect her to have as much screentime as main characters even though my personal preference is to see her more. I really only want the Hyuga to be expanded on and have relevance (perhaps in being a part in helping defeat Juubidara) and for Hinata to show off her Twin Lion Fists + 64 palms move. Kishi has been teasing it for a while now, so it's getting time to show the result I think.

As for Kabuto healing Hinata, what are your theories? You made me think of something, like maybe Kabuto wasn't only healing her but trying to uncover some secrets on the byakugan some other way.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Mustang on Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:32 pm

Well I must admit, I was thinking about that as well, (Hinata being the reincarnation) but the more I thought of it, the less I liked it, Hinata is a worker, not someone who takes shortcuts to achieve her goals. but in another way, what if Kaguya started out working towards her goals and had a hard time of it in her life, then it might be possible.

The thing is Hinata didn't have much natural talent like Neji or Hanabi for that matter, she had to work for it all, and to work hard in front of Naruto, if anything it might be possible that Hinata might be the reincarnation of Ashura's wife for that matter, both working on their ninshuu, (but that is a small possibility since we don't know anything about Ashura's and Indra's personal life)

Plus we don't even know if the Hyuga are related to Kaguya, they might have taken the Byakugan after possibly killing her, who knows, there are different ways it could have gone.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Bubbles on Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:33 pm

I just want them to be together on their own terms. I want them to achieve what they do because they did it, not because of some past people, it really just kills it for me, NH should stand on its own and not be held up by anything other than each other.

I'm already happier that it looks like Naruto isn't actually a reincarnation, I don't want Hinata involved either way. Naruto was apparently chosen at some point in his life to help end this eternal war, its very likely he wasn't actually born with Ashura inside him.

If anything, I would rather Hinata be that someone Ashura did not have. It would make more of an impact imo if her being in his life helped changed things than if she just had Ashura's past wife attached to her.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Mustang on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:33 pm

The one thing I think we all know is that Hinata has already displayed Ninshuu from the start, which is amazing since most characters were focusing on Ninjutsu including Naruto who even used Ninshuu at the sametime, we even saw it in chapter 615 with Hinata when she was trying to pick Naruto up after Neji's death.

So in reality the two characters that have been prominent with Ninshuu is Naruto and Hinata, maybe that is why Hinata isn't as strong a fighter as most other characters, but is able to connect with Naruto on a different level.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:47 am

Bubbles wrote:I just want them to be together on their own terms. I want them to achieve what they do because they did it, not because of some past people, it really just kills it for me, NH should stand on its own and not be held up by anything other than each other.

I'm already happier that it looks like Naruto isn't actually a reincarnation, I don't want Hinata involved either way. Naruto was apparently chosen at some point in his life to help end this eternal war, its very likely he wasn't actually born with Ashura inside him.

If anything, I would rather Hinata be that someone Ashura did not have. It would make more of an impact imo if her being in his life helped changed things than if she just had Ashura's past wife attached to her.

I think that's a good point you are making by stating that Naruto is not Ashura... Each era had this brotherhood issues coming from the Indra/Ashura's ones. Hagoromo presented Madara and Hashirama in the same way. The thing is that the conflicts which resulted from these issues between brothers were never solved. Ashura was chosen over Indra and Hashirama was chosen to become Hokage over Madara for instance. This is actually Naruto and Sasuke's challenge: to solve this problem once for all which will be the key to bring peace and unity.

I get what you mean when you say that you would "rather Hinata be that someone Ashura did not have...". On the other hand, that makes me actually think about a belief regarding the soulmates' connexion which is that soulmates have sometimes to live several lives in order to finally meet each other... Anyway it is, imo, a very romantic way of seeing things despite it's not a belief shared by everybody...

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Bubbles on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:14 am

Irielo
I get what you mean when you say that you would "rather Hinata be that someone Ashura did not have...". On the other hand, that makes me actually think about a belief regarding the soulmates' connexion which is that soulmates have sometimes to live several lives in order to finally meet each other.. Anyway it is, imo, a very romantic way of seeing things despite it's not a belief shared by everybody[/b]...
It is a sweet thought. Though instead of his wife, it could be the girl who was his soulmate, but never made it to stand by his side like Hinata is now. Then it can fit into my Hinata actually achieving this idea. Hm, well if anything, it would certainly be a slap in the face to a certain other ship, knowing that this girl of the past transmitigated into Hinata and not "Naruto's true wuv." XD

After all, they go into people who they see as most likely to achieve their wants.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:40 am

Bubbles wrote:It is a sweet thought. Though instead of his wife, it could be the girl who was his soulmate, but never made it to stand by his side like Hinata is now. Then it can fit into my Hinata actually achieving this idea. Hm, well if anything, it would certainly be a slap in the face to a certain other ship, knowing that this girl of the past transmitigated into Hinata and not "Naruto's true wuv." XD

After all, they go into people who they see as most likely to achieve their wants.

Exactly! However I will put the rest of my post into spoiler tags because I'm afraid we'll go slowly but surely off-topic somehow.

Spoiler:
Who knows? It could be that one of the person never dared to express or show his/her feelings in the past because of lack of confidence for instance. Or it could be that one died before even meeting or coming to know the other one or even that both were already engaged with someone else but did not separate because of a question of respect but secretly felt something deep in their heart for the one they could probably not identify as their soulmate yet... Anyway, there are so much possibilities about this issue which could be used as ideas for eventual fan fictions imo.

For instance: what was Naruto and Hinata's souls' journey before they could finally meet? However, that does not mean that NaruHina is already canon. Still have to wait...

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by lily567 on Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:09 pm

I reread the chapter and I was wondering about something
you guys remember kakashi was talking about that it is said that the sharigan came form the byakugan but in the further on it is revealed that they both existed at the same time. my question is is the byakugan more powerful than the sharigan and why is it that we never heard about any attempted kidnappings in the uchiha clan? why did we ear from about the hyuga clan? what is it about the byakugan that it was on the wanted list for a period of time?

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:05 pm

Most likely because the risk/reward. Not every Uchiha unlocks the Sharingan if I'm recalling the databook information correctly. Every Hyuuga with the Byakugan actually has the Byakugan. So, any Hyuuga that isn't married into the clan should have the Byakugan. With the Uchihas, it's not a guarantee though they do all try to unlock it.

As for which is more powerful, it depends on how you're defining "power." Based on the way most people define power, they'll say the Sharigan is more powerful. Each doujutsu has their pros/cons and it depends on what skill(s) you want (or value).
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:35 pm

So guys, your theories and thoughts along with the last chapters (670-671) inspired me about this theory which could sound crazy in some of its aspects:

Kaguya has normal eyes until she eats the fruit which gives her the abilities inherent to the two great Doujutsus: Byakugan and Sharingan. Kaguya also does not have any husband/fiancé/boyfriend but the tremendous power inside the fruit triggers something inside her leading her to become pregnant.

That's the reason why Hagoromo described himself like a kind of alien because he had no biological father. Well Hagoromo and his brothers are twins but not exact twins because both inherit one of their mum's doujutsu: Hagoromo gets the Sharingan whereas his brother gets the Byakugan.

After getting married, they both have children: Hagoromo's elder son, Indra inherits the Sharingan and the child (or children) of Hagoromo's brother gets the Byakugan. The children are still kids when their fathers have to fight against the Juubi. Like meow69's theory, after sealing the Juubi inside them, Hagoromo's sharingan evolves into the Rinnegan and his brother's Byakugan also evolves into the Rinnegan.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by endame on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:49 pm

well, at this point, it´s clear that Kaguya has byakugan and always had it.

Maybe what i´m about to say should be treated in other thread but i think when Kaguya obtained her power, with time that created conceit so in someway that power corrupted her and i seriously doubt that Naruto and Sasuke can defeat her as she is. so maybe she just need to be purified, in that regard we know Hinata´s pure heart so she would have a role to play in the current situation.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Irielo on Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:36 pm

endame wrote:well, at this point, it´s clear that Kaguya has byakugan and always had it.

Maybe what i´m about to say should be treated in other thread but i think when Kaguya obtained her power, with time that created conceit so in someway that power corrupted her and i seriously doubt that Naruto and Sasuke can defeat her as she is. so maybe she just need to be purified, in that regard we know Hinata´s pure heart so she would have a role to play in the current situation.

Yes, this theory (Kaguya having Byakugan) has been confirmed but other theories came on the top of that if you take a look to the posts here. In the last chapter (679), we came to know Hagoromo brother's name: Hamura. That means, imo, that we will come to know more about him and of course about Kaguya. So, theories still can be written regarding those issues. Some could be confirmed and some not, depending on how the story will develop.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by Mustang on Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:56 am

I said something about Hamaru in the chapter thread.

so here I go, what if Hamaru inherited the Byakugan from his mother, if that is the case then there is a good chance that the Hyuga will get some backstory as well, we still don't know enough about the Hyuga clan and where they really come from, this situation provides the perfect opportunity to bring some stuff into light, we also don't know the full extent of the Byakugan powers, I get the feeling that we have only seen a small portion of what the Byakugan is capable of, all thanks to Hiashi, Neji and Hinata.

so I feel that Kaguya is going to show us what the Byakugan is truly capable of.

that and I think Hamaru is going to show himself in spirit that as, most likely going to provide some support to the protagonists against Kaguya.

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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by racefan1992 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:37 am

I'd love too see the Hyuga clan get fleshed out more. (unlike the Uchia clan, whom have been spam in our faces for like ever).

But based on Kishis track record i'm not holding my breathe but i hope too be proven wrong.
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Re: [THEORY} Kaguya and the Byakugan

Post by endame on Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:04 pm

I am predicting that we will get more story regarding Kaguya because everytime a new enemy appears we need to know their story, ideals and goals and we know just a bit of it regarding Kaguya (earth=nursery) and because Naruto and Sasuke in their current state they can´t beat her, so in order to beat her maybe they need Hamura's power, in that case he will show himself in some way or shape and then we will know more about him and his descendance (hyuga hopefully)

But maybe then they need to be bordering death again and i don´t see that happening again. Power up for someone else?

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